Ep06 - Rethink: Are You a Star Player or Team Coach?

Adam Holt and Derek Notman use a team sports analogy to work through a role question most advisors never answer explicitly: are you your client’s star player, or are you the coach assembling the roster? The hosts argue the coach role is the more durable one, because a household’s financial life requires specialists across estate planning, tax, insurance, and investments, and no single practitioner covers all of it well. Recruiting and coordinating those specialists is the work, rather than personally playing every position. They acknowledge the anxiety this creates for newer advisors, who tend to hear it as an instruction to go hire a large team, and reframe it as a question of which position you play and who you bring in for the rest. The practical close is about making that role legible to clients instead of leaving them to infer it.

• The star player, player coach, and coach roles, and what each one signals to a client
• Why a household’s financial life requires specialists, and what coordinating them actually involves
• How a newer advisor can apply the model without building a large team
• Aligning your title with the role you actually intend to play
• Making the service menu explicit, including the one-page format the hosts suggest

Full timestamped transcript.

[00:00:00] H. Adam Holt: Welcome to Rethink the Financial Advisor podcast. My name is Adam Holt

[00:00:06] Derek Notman: And this is Derek Notman. We are your hosts, both veteran advisors and fintech CEOs who challenge the status quo, question everything, and have fun doing it. Hear honest commentary on the challenges facing advisors today And be part of a community where we can all rethink the profession.

Now on to our episode.

Adam, are you your client's coach? Are you a player coach or are you a player?

[00:00:47] H. Adam Holt: Hmm I'm not sure

[00:00:50] Derek Notman: And I don't mean player as in the playa. Oh,

[00:00:54] H. Adam Holt: gosh. Yeah. That just depends on what time of my life we go back to looking at. Um-

[00:00:59] Derek Notman: Were you the guy... I'm sorry, but I have to ask now. Were you the guy that had the gold chain with the big clock around his neck?

[00:01:05] H. Adam Holt: Well, I did grow up in Brooklyn. So- Oh ...

[00:01:07] Derek Notman: uh,

[00:01:08] H. Adam Holt: Flava Flav was, uh, you know, an icon, but, uh, not so much in, in Brooklyn Heights- ... but I can't say I wasn't ignorant. No, I, I can't say I was that player. It's an interesting question, Derek, because this has come up several times in our conversations about identity and role, and it really ties back to several of the other podcasts that we've done around the importance of having an identity that's clearly defined for our customers going forward so they know what they're getting and they know what they're paying for, right?

I think, I mean, what's your thought? What's your thoughts on this? 'Cause you're, you're thinking of something that's, that's driving this question.

[00:01:47] Derek Notman: Well, it, it is an identity question. I don't know if it's just an identity question. Like, there's like... 'Cause from identity, what does that mean? That means, like, how are we serving our clients?

How are we marketing ourselves to our clients? What are they getting from us? What do they want from us? Um, because these roles, like, this is r- role definition here, I guess, really is, like, like, what are our roles for our clients? And if we haven't defined that, why not? And once we do, like, what is that?

'Cause I, I think that there could... Man, I could, we could really go spiral out of control on this one, but I think this is super important. And I, I love the, the, the team sports analogy that we can draw here, and I know you've used this before, so I guess unpack that a little bit. Maybe that'll help give our, our listeners some, some context on, like, what the heck we're talking about.

[00:02:39] H. Adam Holt: Well, I, and it's interesting because when you think about the analogy of sports, right? Sports works so many different ways in, in life in general, and when you think about the role that a financial professional has inside of a household to be that competent, credible, helpful decision-maker to ideally put the client in a better scenario, one of the things that you can't get away from is the fact that we actually have to package that concept, sell the concept to several clients, manage it, run it, execute it over long periods of time, and it creates an opportunity for us to say, "Well, what other, what other businesses, what other known entities can we examine to try to figure out whether we're at, uh, attack- attacking this, uh, this challenge correctly?"

And it, and because sports is so easy, the way that I've tended to describe it to clients is, like, well, think of it like I'm your financial coach and you own a team, Derek. You are bringing to me the assets, the incomes, the existing players that you've accumulated over the years. Right. I'm walking into your clubhouse, regardless of the sport, and I'm gonna now be your manager.

I'm not coming in to be a player. I don't wanna just do investment management, or if I do, I'm just gonna, I'm just coming in to be that person, that point guard, that running back, and I'm gonna be the best I can at doing that. But we have seen more often that a client is looking at you as a overall financial coach, and a lot of advisors are just playing their one position.

And instead, they need to take this broader view of being either the manager coach, right? To help the team win, okay? Across disciplines. Uh, or being a player coach if you're still gonna be actively on the field, right? I'm actually gonna still manage your money, but I'm not gonna do the insurance, or I'm going to manage the tax, but I'm not gonna handle the investment and the insurance and let's say the legal, right?

But I'm gonna coordinate everybody. So there has to be someone who takes the position in financial advice with the h- with the household of taking charge. And I think you're gonna see, Derek, more and more pressure for financial advisors to take a leadership role in being that overall advocate with accountability, um, for wins and losses effectively, to get their owners to the playoffs if not every year, more often than not,

[00:05:18] Derek Notman: right?

[00:05:18] H. Adam Holt: And that's the real key. You don't have most... I don't think most clients are looking to make it to the championship every single year, right? Except maybe some clubs, you know. Um, but they want their teams to get to the playoffs.

[00:05:29] Derek Notman: I, I love the analogy, and it makes so much sense. And what, what's cool is here is you're not saying, "Well, you have to be a coach 'cause coaches are better," or, "You have to be a player coach or just a player."

Like, they all serve a specific function. That's one of the beautiful pieces of team sports, right? Maybe you just wanna be the insurance player. Maybe you just wanna be the investment person, whatever. But it sounds like what you're saying, Adam, is that the client, the, the team owner, right-

[00:05:58] Announcer: Mm-hmm ...

[00:05:59] Derek Notman: is going to get a manager, a, an overall team coach, manager, whatever you wanna call it, from somebody.

They're looking for that position. They need that person. So then the opportunity is, is like do you as the advisor want that position, or are you content just being one of the players? 'Cause y- and, and if you don't define that, then that's gonna get defined for you very quickly.

[00:06:22] H. Adam Holt: Uh, so that's interesting 'cause you just made me rethink actually how you position this, which is a good reason why I think we talk it out.

There are some in professional sports that some of us follow, some more than others. There are some owners of teams that sit down on the field with their, with their team. They actually come down front row, and they're sitting on the front row. Or they're actually sitting on ... They're standing on the field, depending on- Yeah

the sport, right? Um, there's some that sit up high in a box, and they, they don't show up for practices. They don't watch practices. They just show up for the games. There, there are clients in financial advice that l- that are very involved. Yeah. Uh, they wanna play an active role. In fact, they're actually doing stuff on the side that's promoting or supporting, uh, the agenda of their financial wear- well-being.

Um-

[00:07:10] Derek Notman: Or let's face it, messing it up sometimes.

[00:07:12] H. Adam Holt: Or right, right. Meddling, we'll call it.

[00:07:15] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:07:16] H. Adam Holt: Right? Who's in charge here? Um- Yeah ... right, which can of course cause issues. It- it's important for, I think, us, as financial professionals, to decide what kind of owner we wanna work. Do we, do we want somebody who's gonna be adding to the, you know, the overall team culture, being involved, uh, or detracting from it?

Or do we want somebody who's gonna be hands-off and say, "Okay, let me make my decisions, and I'll, I'll live and die by those. Uh, let me be involved with the entire team"? There's a lot of, uh, individuals we know that have some means that have moved to family offices 'cause they want that full concierge, full team.

Uh, they've got all the bells and whistles because they, they wanna literally delegate all things that are under their pay grade. Uh, and of course, they're still gonna need a manager and, and of course, the question is, are we a player on that team, or are we literally gonna take a leadership role?

[00:08:04] Derek Notman: The beautiful thing is, is that we get to choose.

[00:08:07] H. Adam Holt: Hmm.

[00:08:08] Derek Notman: That's what's kinda cool. My guess is most of us probably start off as players in the industry, and that's okay. You gotta cut your teeth. I mean, look, look at all the great sports. They were great players first, right? And then- Yeah ... they're like, "Okay, I'm a little older now. Can't, you know, jump as high, run as fast, so I'm gonna start coaching everybody 'cause I know more."

The experience. And that's okay. That's great, right? But that's, but that's a choice. Like, do you wanna be the player turned coach, or do you wanna just stay that player that maybe now you're sitting the bench a little bit more often? I don't know.

[00:08:38] H. Adam Holt: That's a good

[00:08:39] Derek Notman: question. It, it really is interesting. And then, you know, if y- i- it's almost like individual sports versus team sports, and I don't know many...

Gosh, you could almost equate this to individual sports, like people looking for just a transaction. Like transaction versus planning, right? You know, we've had chats about this before, and team sports is more about planning, where transaction is more about, about siloed sports. And I think we can all agree that team sports, we're all on the same team.

We're helping each other. Silos, we're, there's, there's more competition. And I don't know if a, as a team manager or, or an owner, I mean, do I want my advisors competing against each other for my wellbeing? No, I want you all working together.

[00:09:24] H. Adam Holt: Well, you know, that's a great point because if there is nobody who owns the bigger, you know, gameplay strategy, right?

Nobody, it just, the, the buck has to stop someplace. It does. That means either with a team manager or a coach or a head coach. Then you're right, a lot of these players are gonna be running off, you know, hoarding the ball, not passing. Uh, "Oh, wait, I didn't know the play." They didn't, uh, you didn't communicate.

I mean, there's 100 different analogies you can probably think about in your own mind. Uh, you know, football, you know, works so well, American football, even, even obviously European, um- Oh, yeah ... is, is just- There's, there's so many aspects to coordinating, um, a potential win, and it, it even begs the question.

So if you're, if you're still kind of lost on this one, uh, the way, the way that we tend to think about it is, you know, most teams have to have an offensive team. I tend to think of that as investment management predominantly. Now, there's no question there are some people on the offensive team that play a defensive posture, right?

We have blockers, we have linemen in American football. Of course. Yeah. Um, right? We have guards, we have... There's, in, in all the different team sports, there's, there's some role of someone who's gonna... I... While we're on attack, we need to stop people from scoring against us. There's a goalie. Yep. Right? Even though, right, w- we're playing a position.

So in the investment side, we tend to be looking for growth and/or income, right? But we need to have some defensive components. We can't be ignorant to it. So if you look at your portfolio of investment choices as example for diversification, these are your players. Do you have the right players on that team at any one point in time?

It's never perfect, right? We have to accept the fact that I don't have the exact right player in every position, in every place on the field, at exactly the right time. Otherwise, it would just be, you know, like, this wouldn't be a, a game. It would just be like ba, ba, ba, bing, you're scoring. But the same thing is true on the defensive side, and I've found a lot of advisors tend to ignore this one.

I tend to think of the insurances and the protections as, as defense because, you know, inevitably the game goes against you, right? The tide changes. Oh,

[00:11:28] Derek Notman: yeah. It, it really does and, you know, insurance, estate planning, tax, you know, all of those things, like we have... It has to be... Y- you need an A team, right?

There's like, there's, there's a reason that we want to get the best players to fill the different roles. That's not the owner's job. They, if th- if they wanted that job, they wouldn't hire us as the as the manager. It's the manager's job, right? So it's just like running a team. And as you said, yeah, you've got offense, defense.

But then even operational, like you've got your offensive, defensive players, but then you have like these, these trainers- Mm ... uh, or specialists that, that help the players do this or do that, right? So they've got these ancillary things. There's, there's a lot of that that's there as well. You know what, though?

I, I, I'm just actually thinking this right now, Adam. I, I wonder if some of the advisors hearing this might be getting a little anxious or nervous.

[00:12:19] H. Adam Holt: Hmm.

[00:12:20] Derek Notman: Because this is a lot. Like, like, like, all right, I'm, I'm Joe Schmoe advisor. I've been doing this for two years. I just got my securities license. You're telling me I gotta hire all of these people?

You're telling me I gotta, like, I gotta be a, I gotta... I'm, I'm... You know, I've been a player for a couple years, and, like, okay, I buy the idea I gotta be a manager at some point, but, but what?

[00:12:43] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:12:43] Derek Notman: So I, I... Let's help them a little bit. Like, "Hey, like, it's not as bad as it sounds."

[00:12:47] H. Adam Holt: No, it's, it's certainly not. I mean, our grandiose ideas are as a result of having, you know, looking back, you know, 40-some years at the business collectively, uh, and, and seeing it from a light that is now clearer having- Yeah

lived it. No different than the coach who was a player, right? Once you've done it, you're kinda like, "Okay, I know what to do, what not to do." At least I believe I know. You're never, never perfect.

[00:13:11] Derek Notman: Yeah, right.

[00:13:12] H. Adam Holt: I think the, the, the, the relevance to this for you listening is- There is an identity that is a tie to how we charge, to the expectations we create for our customers, um, and to the levels of accountability we hold ourselves to with those clients of whether we're delivering value for which we deserve to be paid in the first place.

Mm-hmm. And what we're really saying is that more than ever, customers are looking for, are willing to pay for, and of course, are going to want more for the money they're paying just from a value proposition aligned with helping them, uh, we'll call this holistically. We're helping them make better financial decisions.

From a, from a stickiness standpoint, if you think about the longevity of our business, our hope is that we're gonna have these clients for 10, 20 years, and that's how we monetize it from a strict business perspective. It's lifetime value of us working together over 20 years where, where it's actually productive financially to the advisor.

Um, if you don't have retention in your business, that's not good. Turnover is- hurts your business, uh, and forces you to constantly look for new clients. So we wanna have long-term relationships. How do we argue to the client, or how do we make a position that we are worthy of being, uh, in charge of this team?

Um, because there are... What's gonna happen is if you have some level of success and your clients have success, their needs are gonna get more complicated over time. They're gonna, they're gonna need- Mm-hmm ... that special teams every once in a while on the field. They need tax. They got a business they gotta exit.

They need an attorney 'cause they're dealing with an estate or maybe a divorce. And if you're not part of that process, then you're not creating this invaluable, uh, we'll call it life coach guide of here's how it relates back to your finances and what, and how I'm making investment decisions and how I've insured this or how I've promoted this tax strategy working with your accountant.

So if, if, if you're not in charge, uh, and taking a leadership role, it gets very easy to remove you because then you're just a player on the team, okay? And, and I, I'm gonna say, I'm not saying this is strictly self-serving. I think the overall long-term effectiveness of a financial plan works because there's consistency in the leadership, okay?

'Cause sometimes it takes years for these, you know, ch- these plans to, to play out, right? And I, I think that's- So- ... that's the way to think about it

[00:15:35] Derek Notman: So are we telling our listeners that they all need to become coaches? Because if they all become coaches, then who's, who's on defense, who's on offense? Who are, who do the players become, right?

That, that's a tough one. Oh. So chew on that for a second. Hmm. As, as a, as a former player- Mm ... right? Then, uh, I, uh, you know, to answer the question at the beginning of this, I, I probably would define myself as a, as a manager/coach with, as a player sometimes. Um, but I also look for consistency from my players, right?

I'm only gonna trade you if you start to really do a bad job.

[00:16:08] H. Adam Holt: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:08] Derek Notman: Right? You know, otherwise, I'm not gonna get rid of you. So I, I think, uh, uh, it, it comes back to this identity. If, if I just wanna be that life insurance agent, okay, cool, but then I need to own that, and I need to find a coach that wants me on their team, and that I can be there consistently and vice versa.

'Cause I think there's a challenge here, Adam. Like, if we're telling everybody to be a player for a while and then be a coach- Mm ... I don't know if there's enough... Is there, do we hit market saturation then? Do we have too many coaches and not enough players? I don't know.

[00:16:37] H. Adam Holt: Oh, we don't have enough of either one.

I mean, the, the reason that you've shared w- in prior that, that, that the market opportunity is massive.

[00:16:45] Derek Notman: It is massive.

[00:16:45] H. Adam Holt: Um, and, and the number of people that need advice and haven't gotten it or haven't even been approached about it establishes the fact why there can be 300,000 life insurance agents in the US where the average person, 70% of the population, is still under-insured.

How is that possible, right? How could you have this much capacity and this many agents that are talking about a single solution, a definable, easy to solve issue, and people are still drastically under-insured?

[00:17:15] Derek Notman: Like- You know, it's interesting. That's a really good point. To go with this team thing then, how many players actually talk to the team owner on a regular basis?

[00:17:24] H. Adam Holt: Hmm.

[00:17:25] Derek Notman: They usually go through the coach, the manager. Oh. And then the manager compiles it all into a plan, right? Mm-hmm. And then w- they, they review that with the, the owner. But if you don't have a coach- We've got something missing here, so now either I'm not gonna hire you as a player at all, or I'm gonna do it reluctantly, but I still don't really wanna deal with you.

I want, I want my, I want my coach to deal with this and tell me what to do.

[00:17:49] H. Adam Holt: The reason it's not a perfect analogy is, is to... W- we'll f- let's forgive ourselves here. There's, there's two assumptions that I think in generally we're making. Number one, that a, a single financial advisor can't play the game on behalf of the, of the owner, right?

W- we, we might be coming from the standpoint of we're dealing with a high net worth client with lots of challenges and complications, but what about the varsity game? Can we play high school ball where we actually have a two-person team like, "Okay, you're offense. Hey, turn your helmet sideways. Now you're defense," right?

Yeah. Like, the re- the reality is is sometimes we have enough capability to handle a client on our own.

[00:18:28] Derek Notman: Yes,

[00:18:28] H. Adam Holt: we do. The question is are we positioning to the client as their financial advocate that is going to either I'll manage to my best skill given the resources we have and the game we're playing on both offense, defense, and special teams, but once this gets beyond my either capacity to I have enough time to play this game or my skill set is lessened, I need to bring in another party or work with your accountant, is I'm gonna work with your player.

I'm gonna... Your orphan player. I'm gonna... I'm sorry, I'm gonna adopt them on my team, but I'm in charge, okay? So the question is who has accountability to the plan of the client and executing it and then making sure it's getting done? That's the real question I think this touches on is who's responsible, and are we communicating to the client that we're taking that responsibility, we're gonna be their financial advocate, and help them make good decisions even when I'm not the person on the, on the...

We're gonna judge them, and I'm, I'm... If I have to fire them, I'm firing them. The other pro- the other assumption we're making, Derek, is that the team players are human. Is there a possibility- Ah,

[00:19:40] Derek Notman: yes.

[00:19:41] H. Adam Holt: Right? Is the possibility that if I can't find a really good running back that I'm gonna add a robotic running back?

What am I talking about? In a situation where I'm playing offense, I might choose a manager for my large cap growth strategy that's indexed and maybe even algorithmic because there's just no efficiency there, okay? The best choice there for my offensive positioning might... In fact, one might argue that all of the team members could be robotic, and I'm just pressing buttons.

The key is accountability. You follow?

[00:20:19] Derek Notman: I like that, yeah, a- and that goes back to that earlier, like, kind of issue we raised with, like, how am I supposed to do this as a, you know, newer advisor? Well, here's how you do it, right? There are tools we can do to leverage this, and it doesn't have to all be human.

And, and to our other conversation, by doing this, it enhances- The importance maybe, or in, I don't know, enhances, spotlights, whatever you wanna call it, the importance of our relationship as that team manager or coach now, the human element. It brings it back to that, that they need that that much more

[00:20:51] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

Yeah. So that's why I say it's, it's a challenging analogy, but here, here's the takeaway for this, I, I think, and, and we're forming this as we actually talk about it, is there is a role for a financial advocate who can make leadership decisions and be accountable for making sure that all the team members are working towards the plan.

Some of those team members might be inherited, as I said, right? You already have an accountant? Let me work with him. You don't have an accountant? I got one, right? It's, it's building that team as you talked about before that makes sense. And, and I think we're gonna be pressed as an industry for financial advisors to differentiate themselves as basically either being I'm, I'm the coach, I'm looking at the bigger picture, team goals, culture, vision, impact.

Buck stops with me. I'm gonna coordinate everybody and you're gonna pay me commensurately. Or I'm gonna be the best player on the field in my vein. I'm gonna be the best estate planning insurance advisor, and I'll join the team. W- tell me who's in charge, right? Or I'm the best investment advisor to this even niche, and I'm gonna work with the rest of your team.

But the key is to play what? Team. Team. Customers are looking for team coordination, collaboration, efficiency, and you gotta either decide I'm, uh, I'm, we're running the team or I'm, I'm with the team, right? And that's what I think customers are gonna be looking for in the next couple years or more, um-

[00:22:22] Derek Notman: No question

is

[00:22:22] H. Adam Holt: their team.

[00:22:23] Derek Notman: They're, they're looking for a team. Yep. Yep. And then let me just talk to one person the majority of the time on the team, 'cause I don't wanna get bogged down in all the details. You know, I, I, I don't wanna show up to Saturday morning practice. I don't need to do that. That's why I have a coach.

[00:22:37] H. Adam Holt: Right, right, right. I mean, like w- if you have a gardener, if you're lucky enough to have a gardener, do you go out and talk to the guy who's like literally pruning the, the, the, the, I don't know, the flowers or mowing the lawn to try to say, "Listen, I was thinking about planting some trees." Or maybe if that's a one-person shop and they do everything, or you talk to the, the person who runs the company, say, "Listen, I'm thinking about this.

I'm thinking bigger. I'm not thinking about getting into details." So, so Derek, let's, it's, this is time to talk about the takeaways. What can, what can advisors who are listening take away from decide or delegate or do in their practice right now?

[00:23:12] Derek Notman: Yeah. We, we, we gotta get tactical. We, that's one of the, the things we do here, right?

Is we're rethinking all this stuff. So I, I think to what you said just briefly a little bit ago, your title really should be a reflection of the identity you want to portray. So using a nice sports analogy, are you Michael Jordan, the star player, or are you the head coach of the Bulls? And I'm messing up on it, Phil, what's it- Phil Jackson.

Phil Jackson. Yeah. Yeah. Who are you? Now, maybe you don't need to get as granular and, and say on your business card, "I am the CEO," or, "I am the head coach," or whatever, but you think you get the idea here is, like, the story you're telling a new client, or even a client maybe questioning the work you're doing.

Like, who are you? Well, here's who I am, right? And I think it's really important that you just... And, and this should even, you know, help drive your marketing efforts a little bit. You could have a page on your website literally that says, "Hey, here's how we operate. We are your head coach. You own the team.

We're your head coach. This is how we help you." I- You could do a beautiful infographic in three minutes, you know? So I think there's something there. So I think that, that's one of the most... That would be one of my first things to say, like, is your title a reflection of the identity you're portraying? Who are you?

Are you the coach, the star player? What are you?

[00:24:36] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, that's a- Um- Oh, sorry. I was gonna jump in there. I was gonna say- Go for it ... that, that's a great point. By the way, those two players sometimes are paid drastically different, uh, amounts and have different roles and responsibilities, right? They live and die by different metrics, okay?

A, a place- a, a star player has different metrics than a coach, okay? The, the key there is about accountability to what you're gonna focus on day to day. If you can't be the star player, hire a bunch of star players or manage a hun- a bunch of star players, uh, to do this. But the, the, I think the key takeaway to that, that, that action is decide how you're playing on the team, right?

'Cause it's a team sport, and, um- Yep ... and I think customers are asking for their professionals to work together and collaborate. That means they gotta pass the ball, they gotta work in the best interest of the owner, okay? Which is get them to the playoffs, okay? Help them- Yep ... you know, be financially better off because of you and your team.

[00:25:29] Derek Notman: 100%. And to, to further this fun analogy we're playing on here, like, so the Bulls dream team, right? So what's something else you can do? Maybe you are that two-year star player, and you're still figuring things out, or maybe you're 15, 20 years in, and you're looking to do things differently. Proactively build your dream team.

Who are the people that you need to come in? If you're just gonna be a star player, then, then get yourself drafted by the right dream team. If you're gonna- Mm ... if you're gonna be the, the head coach, well, what, what silos, if you will, what players, what key players are you missing that you need to have on your team?

And go build those. Go find those. And part of this is gonna be driven by the type of ideal clients you serve. If you serve physicians, for example, their needs are gonna be unique and different from those of maybe high net worth business owners or teachers. It doesn't really matter. So know that you might have to adjust the type of star players you're hiring based upon the type of business owner, clients that you are serving, right?

They're gonna have different needs and, and so forth. So I think that's really important. And then, but we kind of already reflect, you know, talked about this, but tell clients this stuff, right? Put it on your website. Have this wonderful, uh, conversation where you can share this example of, like, "This is how we do things here.

I am your head coach. If you hire me, this is what you get. This is how I operate. Here are my players." Or if you're a star player, "Hey, this is my specialty. I am the star player on this team, and you're hiring me for this. But I can bring in other people or in- introduce you to the coach if we need to." You know, there's all these other pieces, but tell them how it works instead of asking them how they want it to work.

Uh, 'cause if you're asking them how to do this, it's like, it's like, you know, the head coach saying, "Hey, um, uh, you know, team owner, can you come down here and, uh, run these plays for my, my, my players? 'Cause I don't know what I'm doing."

[00:27:27] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:27:27] Derek Notman: It doesn't work.

[00:27:29] H. Adam Holt: Well, hey boss, what do you want? Do you, you want more assists?

Do you want more rebounds? What, what do you think we should be going for here? What, what are we

[00:27:34] Derek Notman: doing?

[00:27:36] H. Adam Holt: I'm not sure. Do you

[00:27:37] Derek Notman: wanna come motivate the team? 'Cause I'm struggling with it.

[00:27:40] H. Adam Holt: Exactly. Don't ask Cuban to do it. He'll do it. I mean, that's- He will. He totally would ... but that's the kind of... That's a great point, because, you know, do you want a, you know, an owner like Mark Cuban who's gonna, you know, be very involved and passionate and have, you know, different types of standards, or do you want someone who's, you know, literally just showing up, you know, for the big games?

Um, that's a really great-

[00:27:58] Derek Notman: You know, real quick on that ... I love what

[00:27:59] H. Adam Holt: you said. Yeah, sure.

[00:28:00] Derek Notman: Adam, you know, I wanna throw this out there. Long, total long shot, but that's, you know, some team sports are dead last and they end up winning the season. I think we need to get Mark Cuban's opinion on this directly

[00:28:13] H. Adam Holt: Can we do it?

[00:28:15] Derek Notman: I don't know. I think we need to ask him to rethink things a little bit and come on here. So we'll see. I don't know, man. We're gonna throw it out there, right? We'll see. Yeah, right. It can't

[00:28:22] H. Adam Holt: hurt. If he gives us more than seven minutes, that would be amazing.

[00:28:25] Derek Notman: I'll take seven minutes. I will take- That's fine

[00:28:27] H. Adam Holt: we will all take seven minutes. Pretty cool.

[00:28:28] Derek Notman: Um- So Mark, if you're listening or if someone knows Mark- Yeah ... tell him to, to hit us up on LinkedIn.

[00:28:34] H. Adam Holt: I think Mark- Except- Didn't Mark interact with your son, though, on, on something? Wasn't there

[00:28:38] Derek Notman: a story behind- He sure, he sure did. Yeah. Um, he s- he sent a text back after I sent him a video of a, a small little business my, my son started, so maybe I need to work that angle a little bit more.

[00:28:47] H. Adam Holt: That's

[00:28:47] Derek Notman: true.

[00:28:48] H. Adam Holt: Well, even, even from a... Of course, we gotta turn everything into a learning opportunity, but that's, that just goes to show that, uh, some owners are accessible. There are a lot of financial advisors that are not approaching high net worth, high profile people who need help, and they're willing to interact.

They just, you gotta reach out, you gotta start that. Boy, that's a whole nother issue. It's a whole nother conversation. Yeah. I got that lesson a couple times in my, in my business thinking that I was just too small to approach bigger clients, and, and boy, they wanted help and they needed it, by the way.

That's great. So I, my takeaways are, are, are the following. One of the things that you probably heard here is you gotta know your strengths, right? You gotta know when to be a player and when to be a coach, right? Some clients need to coach, they don't even know how to ask for it. Uh, sometimes you need to just take charge, but sometimes you also need to know just when to say, "You know what?

I need to bring in another expert here," uh, and not feel embarrassed about it. I, I think customers in general are not expecting you to know everything about everything, but they do want to buy into your process of making decisions that serve them. And if they think you have a good process and they trust you, and that you're aligned in your teams and their interests, um, they're gonna, they're gonna trust your judgment, and that's gonna be valuable long-term to keeping them as, as your, uh, you as their advocate.

So that's the first thing. The second thing is that I know many people have moved to this idea of investment policy statements. It was done in order to create accountability and of course show that there is a plan here. It's not just random asset allocation. Um, but, but nothing stops us from creating what I think is gonna be something an, a new, a new process, which is called a relationship policy statement.

Some advisors I know have done this for years- It's part of their ADV, it's part of their engagement. Uh, it's kind of here's what you can expect from me, but here's what I need to expect from you. Not just timely payment, not just you'll show up to the annual review meeting or quarterly, whatever you're doing, but I need you to commit to the goals that we're gonna find.

Some of these meetings are gonna be painful. Some of them are gonna- we're gonna be ahead of the game. Sometimes we're gonna be on defense. We're gonna have a lot of, of losses in our column, and we're gonna need to make some tough decisions. Some of them are gonna have to require you spending more money to get a better player on the team, and that means maybe I need to make more investments.

Maybe I gotta invest in the field even though you feel like the field doesn't need... You know, the pitch is fine. So we're gonna need to make decisions, and I think having an understanding and saying that upfront could be really valuable to the long-term game of showing why you need to be managing this team for not just the next two seasons, but maybe for the next decade.

And I, and think that's where you really create value. Explore this. I mean, is there a possibility of really kind of setting expectations up front with a relationship policy statement or document? And number three is-

[00:31:24] Derek Notman: I love this. Can I interject, Adam? That's right. Of course. Sorry to interrupt you. No, that's fine.

I, I really love what you just said there. I think this is so important. This is more human. Mm-hmm. Investment policy statement's kind of eh, like it's there, but it's like this is more human. And like if I'm sitting down with a new client, whether it's brand new or we're reviewing or whatever, and I could just have this one-pager, like an Asset-Map- Maybe

uh, that says, hey, maybe... Dude, maybe this is an idea for Asset-Map. You guys could- Could be ... create something like this. But like that says, like, "Here are the different roles. Here's what we're doing. Here's our responsibilities. Oh, and by the way, you have responsibilities, too."

[00:31:59] H. Adam Holt: Mm. "

[00:31:59] Derek Notman: And here are the things that can go wrong, here are things that can go right."

Like if I, if I have that on one piece of paper, even if you show it to me once a year just to remind me, like that's awesome. Like I get it now. I think that's so much more valuable than just like, "Hey, you made 14.3% this last year." You know, or whatever. It's-

[00:32:15] H. Adam Holt: Yeah ...

[00:32:16] Derek Notman: uh, anyway, sorry. I just- Well,

[00:32:17] H. Adam Holt: no. This isn't- I think- But this is when we figure it out, right?

It's in these moments when we actually kind of, we actually- Mm-hmm ... rethink it ourselves, right? So the, the, the add-on to that, and I appreciate you saying it, is we need to... The, what's the big theme here? We need to promote the value that we provide. Yes. From the marketing standpoint, if we're not making it clear why a client should engage and/or pay us to do a certain job, then we've missed the moment.

So we need to explicitly tell them, "Here's all the stuff that, that you get when you, when you sign in here. Let me- Here's the menu of all the great stuff you get. Here's what I'm gonna do for you," and so forth. So that's really what I'm talking about.

[00:32:52] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:32:52] H. Adam Holt: But we- And

[00:32:52] Derek Notman: the tactic- Yeah ... a tactic with that, like you could do this on a one-page infographic.

[00:32:56] H. Adam Holt: You could.

[00:32:57] Derek Notman: Go to canva.com for free and create this infographic in 10 minutes. Get it compliance approved, yes. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's that easy to do.

[00:33:04] H. Adam Holt: As needed.

[00:33:04] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:33:05] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, exactly. But... and, and I think so that's, that's the whole point. But I, I love the idea, and I've been trying to say this t- for many years.

Tell the clients what you expect of them, right?

[00:33:15] Derek Notman: Yes. Right?

[00:33:16] H. Adam Holt: Yep. I, I know you're expecting maybe returns or performance from me.

[00:33:20] Derek Notman: Right.

[00:33:20] H. Adam Holt: I'm expecting savings and flexibility from you, because it ain't gonna work on a straight line. And, and there's gonna be moments when I'm, we're gonna need to catch up and start and pick up the pace, even though you may not be comfortable, okay?

So because it, this is the time to make tough decisions. And, and we, and you can i- you know, imagine what those things are 'cause you've lived through financial advice, and they tend to be, you know. So I think you get it. Number three, I, I think that there's something interesting from the reading I've done around being a, a CEO, um, or being a leader.

Your compensation is directly tied to the importance of your decisions and how that outcome is gonna affect, in this case, the team owner, okay? So if you're making really big decisions that are really important- You should be able to charge appropriately. And the reason why this is important is because we will be facing a decreasing margin business- Yeah

simply because the efficiency of technology will make it cheaper for us to deliver that for which we typically have made high compensation relative to where it's going. Um, and I mean that that's, that's, I believe in my heart that we will see a, uh, more efficient investment management marketplace and fee marketplace.

I believe we will see a lower, uh, compensation structure in the distribution arms of insurance and annuities. I think we'll see this in banking. I think we'll also see this eventually, uh, in some legal outlets as we see, you know, companies like Trust & Will, right? These are- Yeah ... as examples of how l- they're gonna disintermediate the legal marketplace.

They charge $2,000, $3,000 to do a will. They're gonna do it for a couple hundred bucks, and it's gonna be good enough, and it'll get done. And I think they're gonna really put a lot of pressure on the professional marketplace to, to either show why they're adding value and worth two, three, $4,000 spends, or find another job, or r- or re- retool yourself.

[00:35:12] Derek Notman: I think that's a great example. Like, I, I've, I'm a user of Trust & Will. I redid all my estate planning docs- Mm ... and I paid them instead of an attorney, but I still have an attorney-

[00:35:20] H. Adam Holt: Oh, interesting ...

[00:35:21] Derek Notman: right, that I pay for more advanced conversations and things that we need to do- Right ... to get it done, and that's where that really...

It, it just supports what you're saying right there. It comes in. Anyways. Cool.

[00:35:29] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:35:30] Derek Notman: Um, go do

[00:35:31] H. Adam Holt: those

[00:35:31] Derek Notman: things.

[00:35:32] H. Adam Holt: Move on to, yeah. Yeah, sure. G- go do, execute all that- ... by next podcast. Um, s- but seriously, think about one of them that you can actually do. Now, this, um, this is a, uh, this is a question. Because the question came into you, I'll read it to you.

Um, this question came into, uh, to us from Evan in New York City via LinkedIn, and here's the quote. Can I read it to you, Derek?

[00:35:53] Derek Notman: Yeah, go for it.

[00:35:54] H. Adam Holt: He said, "When considering marketing yourself virtually, do you think you need to have a CFP, Certified Financial Planner designation?" What do you think?

[00:36:05] Derek Notman: There's, so there's a lot in, in this question.

So Evan, first thank you. We'll have to get a T-shirt over to you. I, I really, really appreciate this. So one, this goes back, so the CFP, we could tie that back to this whole episode.

[00:36:17] H. Adam Holt: Mm.

[00:36:17] Derek Notman: Right? Like, what is your role? What is your title? How are you marketing it? So I think that's important. But do you need to have a CFP?

Do you need to have like this professional designation to market yourself virtually? I, I don't think so, right? This comes back to your identity and just being able to market yourself and that identity, whether you're a star player or a coach or whatever, that's fine. So Evan, no, I don't think you need to have a CFP.

You know? I mean, there's a long road to get one, right? A, a, a lot of these, these designations take time and, and, and whatnot. So no, I don't think so, but I, I think you've opened up another interesting conversation about marketing, prospecting and so forth, um, because I think that this is a very important topic we have to look at here is like whether you have a professional designation or not, how are you marketing yourself virtually?

Or as my friend Adam like says, remotely. Like, we're not virtual, we're remote. But I think we need to rethink that too. So like in short, Evan, no, don't worry about it. I think the bigger question and conversation is here, what are you marketing? How are you marketing? Uh, all of those things. Or are you just prospecting?

Right? Like, there's a difference here. So I, yeah, I think this is interesting. I think there's, I mean, let's face it, the majority of advisors do not have a CFP. So I, I don't, I wouldn't use that as the barrier to entry to marketing. The barrier to entry to marketing is just knowing, I think, your identity as well as your client's identity.

[00:37:39] H. Adam Holt: The real question for me is, Ed, that I think Evan is asking is do I need the CFP for credibility to earn the audience with potential clients? In other words, is it gonna be a leverage- Yeah ... point on the marketing side for me to prove that? And I would say A- a- ask the antithesis of it. Is if you don't have the CFP, what is the, what are the questions that the CFP would have, that designation would have answered to potential clients?

In other words, is it addressing the objection before the question is asked? By claiming that you're a CFP, I happen to be a CFP certificant who actually got it, you know, 15, 16 years ago or more, and then dropped it when I had enough credibility in my business that I said, "I don't feel like doing the CE anymore."

And it was getting aggravating to me, so I was like, "Ah, this is... I'm too busy. I'm gonna let it drop." I- it didn't s- didn't affect my business at all. Ironically, I went back and did all the CE and got it again, because in the role I was in, it lent itself to the credibility I was trying to portray. So no different than a CEO has an MBA.

It gives them a little different panache. Um- That

[00:38:48] Derek Notman: helps,

[00:38:49] H. Adam Holt: yes ... it's a mar- so it's, it's a question of how you use the marketing of it. Um, I would argue in many cases, unfortunately actually, that the CFP become, has become more of a marketing moniker than a, uh, intellectual one. In other words, people use it because it, it does open the door.

Uh, it answers questions on, let's say, ethical alignment or otherwise.

[00:39:10] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:39:11] H. Adam Holt: And that doesn't mean they really have done the CE, right? They have really learned it and live the, the credo or the ethos of the certified financial planner as it's intended. So but that's a, that happens in CPA, too. I know plenty of CPAs that can't- Oh, sure

count, okay? But they got a CPA, so arguably they can count. I don't know. It's an interesting question, but it's a great lead in because one of the things that we, we have both been get a lot of requests to, to address in this is marketing, right?

[00:39:38] Derek Notman: Oh, this is such a big one to unpack 'cause mar- marketing is the opening of, you know, the funnel to bring in new clients, uh, to service existing clients, to, to talk about our team or our star player, you know, or whatever.

So-

[00:39:51] H. Adam Holt: Mm-hmm ...

[00:39:52] Derek Notman: this is a big one. Um, I fell into this by accident. I've actually become halfway decent at it- ... uh, through a lot of s- you know, hard work and failures and mistakes. But, um, that's what we're gonna come on to. We're not gonna get into it now, folks, but, like, we're gonna unpack prospecting versus marketing and even paid versus organic marketing.

Uh, 'cause this is- there's a lot to it, and there's a lot of people trying to get our business to do this.

[00:40:19] Announcer: Mm.

[00:40:19] Derek Notman: Um, I don't know about you, but I get pitched almost daily, "Hey, I can get you X leads per month. Hey, I can do your social media for you." Um, so I think this is a, a, a hot topic for all of us, so we will unpack that, and we will start doing that in our next episode.

[00:40:32] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. This probably is gonna be more than one episode 'cause marketing is so big, and there's so many topics around it. Yeah. I've been finding a lot of advisors are just we've never been given the training on what is organic or inbound or outbound or digital, or what the heck is the social, or what does it mean for me?

Uh, it's, it's very obscure, and we never- most of us that have been in the business for any length of time never got- we never got taught this stuff. Um- No, we were given phone scripts ... you know how to shake hands. Yeah. These are for you. Go, go to a charity event and meet some people. Like-

[00:41:01] Derek Notman: Yeah. Right. ...

[00:41:02] H. Adam Holt: go golf and talk to the people that you're golfing.

So, um, yeah, I agree. So this is- this will be hopefully a good education, uh, and we'll give some resources. I think we're gonna actually interview some people, uh, in this one, so there'll be some great opportunity over the next series. Derek, as always, I appreciate you and what you do for our community.

Thank you.

[00:41:20] Derek Notman: Likewise, Adam, my man. Thank you. Uh, it's been a pleasure. And, uh, to everyone out there listening, thank you. We appreciate, uh, it as well. And, uh, just keep rethinking it.

[00:41:30] H. Adam Holt: You got it, man. See you next one.

[00:41:32] Derek Notman: All the best. Cheers.

[00:41:44] Announcer: Thank you for listening to Rethink, the Financial Advisor Podcast with Holt and Knottman. Be sure to subscribe now and join the ongoing conversation. The information covered and posted represents the views and opinions of the guest and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Asset-Map or Connectir.

The content has been made available for informational and educational purposes only

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