Ep32 - Rethink: Are Financial Advisors Gifting Dummies? – Featuring Joe Fischer

Hosts H. Adam Holt and Derek Notman are joined by Greetabl founder Joe Fischer to challenge the way financial advisors handle client gifting. They unpack why the traditional holiday gift basket rarely creates the impression advisors intend, and what it takes to build a more thoughtful, scalable gifting program instead. Fischer draws on his experience building a gifting platform used by hundreds of thousands of customers to offer practical, automatable alternatives.

• Why the traditional client gift basket often backfires
• Building a scalable, automated client-gifting system
• The psychology behind meaningful client appreciation
• Using intentional gifting to strengthen referral relationships
• Timing and cadence for gifting throughout the year
• Practical vendor solutions advisors can put to work today

Full timestamped transcript.

[00:00:30] H. Adam Holt: Derek. Are advisors, gifting dummies, ?

[00:00:36] Derek N. H. Notman: I can't help but laugh just at the question.

Adam,

Doesn't

[00:00:39] H. Adam Holt: that make sense? You know what a gifting dummy is, right? I,

[00:00:42] Derek N. H. Notman: I'm not quite sure Yeah. What that really is. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna try, alright. I wanna try. All right. , as an advisor from a number of years now, We've been told that you should recognize like your clients and show appreciation, right?

Mm-hmm. Send them a gift. Now some will let you send gifts for five bucks, but send a gift to show the appreciation. But I think the gift basket that they reif, that's probably not cutting it anymore, Right? re re gifted basket . Yeah. So I, I would. There's probably a lot of dummies out there.

They just don't know it. I was one for sure until it was pointed out that I wasn't.

[00:01:25] H. Adam Holt: Why do you ask? Well, you know, it's funny because it's getting near that time of year when all the advisors I know start arranging for their top clients to start getting the gifting baskets right. And I'm, we've been subject to this too.

We did the same thing. My team says, Okay, are they getting a basket this year? I don't even know what kind of basket they're getting. All I know is that usually in January. When I talk to those clients that I sent those 30, 40, $50 gift baskets to of probably chocolates and stuff like that, or dips and fig stuff that I don't know if anybody actually eats.

Maybe that's why they wind up in the gift basket and they charge us 50 bucks for it. You know, the. I asked them about it. They're like, We, we never got it. You know why? Because their staff ate it. Because it went into the pool of the cafeteria or kitchen area and everybody just took it home before the person who was supposed to get it got it.

So I think that makes us dummies because I think we're wasting money and we're not actually getting the impact that we hope to achieve with it. I

[00:02:32] Derek N. H. Notman: think you're right. And you know what this brings to mind? A really funny example, I just watched this weekend again, the classic National Lampoons Christmas vacation.

Cool. And there's a scene where Clark, Debbie Griswold goes into his boss's massive conference room with a gift, and he's like, Oh, we came up with something really thoughtful for you. You look at all the gifts behind that came from everybody else. They're the exact same gift, right? So total gifting dummy right there, you know,

So like, Oh,

[00:03:02] H. Adam Holt: I love that you said that people reif these gifts, but because it's true we get a lot of baskets at our office too typically from financial services providers and they drop off something. Some people really do a great job and it's memorable. I don't know that I give them business because of.

I would like to think that I don't maybe it creates top of mind awareness, which I think is the intent. But the Gifting Dummies question came up from an interview that you had introduced to us that we did, which I was quite surprised at because Joe Fisher brought this up and we had met him through your network and he brought this question, So help us understand Joe, because he brings up some interesting things I think will be invaluable for advisors to think about in this season.

[00:03:49] Derek N. H. Notman: Yeah, it was really fun. I've actually done a little bit of work with him, which you'll hear about in our conversation, and he's got an interesting background. He he always had this mindset he was gonna be, become a financial advisor and never ended up becoming one. But he does have his CPA and his CFA.

He also worked at Bear Stearns and at Goldman Sachs. So he's definitely had his, at least one foot in our industry or profession go back and listen to that other episode. So he has a really insightful View into our, into the work that we do. And after his time at Bear and Goldman, he did some entrepreneurial stuff, traveled the world, climb Mount Kilimanjaro, he's been 25 countries.

Pretty cool stuff. And we, we were kind of joking he's probably climbing the mountain, realized that people are doing gifting all wrong, and Joe, I don't know if that's true or not, we're gonna just assume it is for purposes of this conversation. But what's interesting is he actually founded a company all around better gifting and is actually helped over a hundred thousand customers now

so we wanted to have a really good chat, you know, with him looking from the outside in, like how can advisors not be dummies when it comes to this stuff? Cuz he's helped so many he's learned things at scale that you and I could never learn from just gifting to our own book of business, if you will.

Yeah. So yeah, so we asked him how how do we deepen relationships, the work he's doing and get some really cool insights from.

[00:05:18] H. Adam Holt: Cool. Let's hear what Joe had to say. Listen , in this podcast on what you are doing that might be synonymous with a gifting dummy and what you can do better and what you could do easier in this year.

I think you'll find some really good tidbits. Let's hear from Joe. What do you thinks the missing opportunity for advisors that they're just not addressing right now or just don't see.

[00:05:39] Greetabl: Yeah, so the, the challenge that probably everyone sees coming, maybe it's one of those things that it's just , how much do we understand it is the compression of commissions, right?

We've seen that in real estate. We've seen it all over the place, and I think that's just one of those things that. It's so critical to not be complacent and the opportunity that I think is there is, aside from building relationships, I think is table stakes for a financial advisor.

I think that is absolutely critical. If you don't do that, you probably don't have much of a business, but I think the hidden opportunity, Is building relationships with the next generation and doing that from day one. Do your clients' children, do they know and trust you?

If not, why not? Are you helping your client? Educate their children about the importance of financial planning and having that sound financial plan. If you think about it, your client's children, they're the most important thing for most of them, right? They're the most important thing in the world.

And are you caught in a scenario where you're merely helping them think about how to pay for college now because your client is thinking about their children's lives and so much greater depth. Than just a college bill. But I think most financial advisors think about that as the big milestone, and then it just cut loose and gone.

And I don't, I think it's easy, it's simple. And that's a huge milestone, right? But as we all, as the three of us all know, we've been outta college for a long time. A lot of life happens after college. So I think that's like the hidden opportunity that of all the financial advisors I've talked to, very few and very few can count on one hand are actively engaging that next generation from day one.

It's

[00:07:14] Derek N. H. Notman: a really interesting perspective and I would agree that a lot of things do happen after college quite a bit. So to that end, then I think that this is a nice thread that we're on. What action steps then can advisors take to engage? This next generation. Right. What are some things that you were seeing given your position, and just like for the advisors, listen, if you could knock 'em upside the head, Hey, do this, this

[00:07:39] Greetabl: will help.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. There's three, three buckets that I think about just in general, and the first is what we call surprise and delight, and that's it. Yes, it does include sending gifts, that is part of it, but it's really, it's much bigger than that. It's really. Being intentional about building authentic relationships with your client and that that could be, that can take the form of many different ways, right?

It could be, it could happen through a gift, it could happen through a conversation. It could ha happen through just the care you take in, in, in providing the plan and listening to them and everything else. But it's about , stepping back and being smart about how to implement that. Because unless you have.

Unless you only have 20 clients, right? If you have a hundred, 150, 300 clients, some people have, right? You're gonna have to build a system with intention in order to build these genuine relationships. And that might sound counterintuitive, but I assure you it's not having a system in place to remember to check in with someone.

Does not mean that when you check in with them, you're any less genuine, thoughtful, caring, considerate than had you just randomly thought about it and left it up to chance. We put our most important things on the calendar and just so I think about it like that, like scheduling something doesn't mean it's not important.

It means it's so important. You wanna make sure you don't miss it. So that's number one a part of. I would say the couple of more tactical things on the gifting side. Within that, I mentioned the client's children send them birthday gifts. Just that, just something that simple. I encourage them to do that.

I actually got that idea from a financial advisor and he's the most successful guy in the office. I won't mention the other firm, but we would all know it. And it was like, that's a brilliant idea. And every person, everyone else I talked to in that office pointed to him as the guy who's, uh, who's crushing it kind of thing.

So that's a really, it's a really easy thing to do. Imagine if you're, even when you're like five years old, getting a birthday gift is just fun. Doesn't matter who it's from. And now you get into this and you, you almost become like uncle status by the time you're 18 years old or something. Are the kids 18 year years old?

So that's a neat one. And then just another thing, I think there's always a really big opportunity to just be a little bit vulnerable and a little bit just like touching thoughtful, authentic, and just something like sending a note or a text, not, I'm not talking about daily, weekly, monthly, even here. As sporadically every once in a while.

And if you did it once a year with all of your clients, it would be amazing with just something like I've, I've always admired blank about you, about that person. Like we, I guarantee we can all find something we admire about our, our clients or all of our financial advisors can find something, admire something they like, something they really respect.

Whatever it is, just pick one thing. You don't have to, you don't have to write an article about it. Just pick one thing and mention it. That will change that person's day and it's so easy to do. So that's another thing. And then lastly, This is a little bit of a silly one, but I think that especially today, you need to consider zigging when other people are zagging and just do something a little bit different to stand out.

I like telling people to send half birthday gifts instead of birthday gifts, and the reason is do you know who else is sending half birthday gifts? No one, right, Not a single person. So you have one day where it's only you that are getting a little bit of attention, a little bit of love, like making their day.

And it's just a ton of fun. It's like you have, you probably have to have the right personality for it. If you're Mister three piece suit and tie, it might not work for you. Well, you know, let's be honest. But it's just fun. It's just a lot of fun and uh, and it gets really great reactions and talk about, especially if it's on the.

Kind of younger demographic side of things and talk about social media, like how much fun it is to be like, I got a half, but this is silly. This is fun. It's super shareable. So that's a really great one. And then the last bucket. I like to, I just think about this in general in so many industries, but I think it's really apt here is just try to get in your customer's shoes like just as much as possible.

Don't accept the status quo, everything that you're making your client do. I'm thinking especially like any sort of like heaps of paperwork or I need a wet signature on paper or any of that kind of stuff, that's an opportunity to improve the experience, to retain a customer, to get that that next one in.

And I think that's like as an individual financial advisor, will you be able to solve that problem? Probably not. There's probably levels of bureaucracy, but you can shine a light on it. You can take a step and shine a light and try to make the customers experience better.

[00:11:52] H. Adam Holt: Some of the things you've said are, are, they hit home.

And I think for all of us as business owners, we do have relationships we need to support and pretty much everything you said is stuff that our parents taught us to do. Thoughtful, Write a card, stay in touch with the people who care about, be intentional about it. Send a gift. Don't show up empty handed.

But I think, I'm curious why you think financial planners and financial advisors are not doing this. Why are they not executing? Is there, is that something you've

[00:12:15] Greetabl: solved with greet? Yeah. Yeah, so that's a good question. A lot of them certainly are, and I, And just because you're doing it, just because you're doing the action doesn't necessarily mean you're hitting the mark.

Certainly a lot of people are, and it's interesting, I've had a number of conversations where someone says, We do this, I, I do this myself, or I do it in house, or something like that, and I just chuckle because what does that person say when they talk to a prospective client? And they say, Oh, I'm taking care of my financial planning myself.

They'd be like, Hey, are you an expert at this? Do you really? Do you think about this 24 7 for 10 years? Because that's what I do and that's why I'm here to help. So flip that back around. Are you an expert on gifting? Are you an expert on client relations? Are you like all of that kind of stuff. Like even just picking something, packing it, shipping it, all of that kind of stuff.

That's what we think about all day, every day. And we've worked with thousands and thousands of. Of customers at this point. So we, we, we know a thing or two. So like when I say half birthday gifts that you might chuckle and say, That's crazy. I know that works for the right person. Again, it might not be right for every advisor out there, but for the right person, they're gonna get a huge return on that

[00:13:23] Derek N. H. Notman: investment.

What's really interesting to that point is as advisors, as you said, expect our customers to work with the experts. So we should do the same. We should outsource that stuff. But what's cool is that through the work you've done, you believe, if I read this correct, that you've already. Experience this at a level of like hundreds of thousands of

[00:13:40] Greetabl: people.

Oh, yes. Yeah. We serve hundreds of thousands of customers at this point. Yeah. So your

[00:13:44] Derek N. H. Notman: data, you probably won't give the data out , but your data has gotta give you some really brilliant insights onto what works, when it works, why it works, or if it doesn't, so why an advisor would never be able to do that on their own.

Or if they did, it would take years. They would just have to go start another company virtually. So instead just tap into someone who's already done it and learned.

[00:14:07] Greetabl: Yeah, I think that's really cool. And we're not, I'm not someone who thinks that every gift someone needs to send is needs to be greetable every single time.

That's not, I'm not delusional. Like I think we have an amazing solution that that solves a lot at a lot of problems. But handwritten notes are, A bottle of wine is great. Some people do pies at various times of the year or whatever. Now, I would argue that, hey, if, if you're dropping a pie off at Thanksgiving, unless they're counting on that pie for dinner, like maybe that pie gets lost in the shuffle a little bit.

You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of other stuff going on, whatever. So like people don't necessarily think about that. They, a lot of times they put themselves first, I think in like unintentionally, not maliciously, but they, they like convince themselves that they're doing it for them when it's really like the thing that they like to.

[00:14:50] H. Adam Holt: Ah, you mean giving the

[00:14:51] Greetabl: gift that they would like to receive that, or just the act like getting the attention of doing that? This like a, like some people like drop, drop pies off at certain times, whatever, and or drop cookies off and it's there when you're getting gathering at the Thanksgiving table with your family or like preparing for that day.

Is that really when you want someone to come to your home and present you and disrupt your day and stuff, it's not, But like they're getting to make a fuss about it a little bit and look what we did and it was so cool. And again, I don't think it's intentional, it's not intentionally malicious or anything, but I think sometimes it's subtle and it's.

Works its way into being more about the gifter than the recipient.

[00:15:27] Derek N. H. Notman: I would almost say that's a little bit of controversy right there. There's some genuine reason for actually giving the gift instead of just trying to get attention or the next sale. Cause it doesn't sound like you're saying gift to, to get that next sale or whatever, so much as is just to build a really meaningful

[00:15:42] Greetabl: relationship.

And by virtue of doing that, authentically and genuinely, you'll get the best return. Exactly, you know, on that investment. And if you want controversy, please don't think that crappy gift basket or that tin of popcorn, that ascent at the holidays with when every, when their office is full of gifts of just like that, don't think that you're making any relationships.

You're not building the relationship. Then we do a lot of holiday gifts. I love that people send holiday gifts. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but if you're really trying to stand out and break through the clutter, Sending the gift at the same time everyone else is doing it is not going to make that happen.

It's just not. And I think there's another thing that, and I've heard individuals complain cuz now every time I talk to someone who's your financial advisor or how do you like, but like I'm just interested, I'm so interested in engaged in it. And one of the things I've heard is like, But we, we don't send gifts.

We do events, right? That's one thing financial advisors might say. We don't send gifts. We do events. And it's funny to me because I've heard more people complain about feeling obligated to go to this event than, than I've heard them complaining about receiving a nice gift from them. And I think that it's a, it's that same thing.

We like to think we're doing it for the other people, but it's actually become this event that we are excited about hosting and then we are in the limelight and all this kind of stuff. So I think I would challenge you unless your client is like, cannot wait to do this thing, , they're a big horse racing fan and you're taking them to derby, right?

So like something like that or whatever. Unless it's that you might just be getting attendance because they feel obligated. And that's a worst case scenario there because then you're, you're actually stealing their most valuable asset their time. So I would just pump the brakes on that and just try to be really intellectually honest.

Is it something they can't wait to get to? And if it's a client wide event, the chances that all of your clients are that into the same thing is just minuscule, right? It's just minuscule. Unless you're a hyper niche advisor.

[00:17:39] H. Adam Holt: What is greetable?

What's the pain it's solving and why? What's its superpower? Yeah,

[00:17:44] Greetabl: so re really, Greetable specializes in the kind of cross section of convenience and personalization. So it's really easy to get out the door. Price point is very approachable, usually in the $30 range or so. Depending on what's inside. And then and it, and it makes this impression because it's this really surprising and delightful unboxing, super personalized, feels like you spent way more than that on it.

And it just leaves the recipient like ready, basically ready to send a text saying, Hey, this is the coolest thing I've gotten. Like we hear a lot of that kind of stuff. So really it's really easy. Personalized gift.

[00:18:17] H. Adam Holt: When you say personalized, you're not, are you saying you're gonna get Adam's name on the cup, or you're saying personalized?

It's thoughtful to your interests as opposed to the gifter interest with their logo

[00:18:27] Greetabl: on it. Good. That's a great point. , we have this patented card that folds up into a box. So that can be personalized with a message and three images, photos or logos or things like that in there. So the gift inside will not be, we have champagne, gummy bears, or nice candles or chocolates, that kind of stuff.

That will not be, you won't have a logo or anything on that, but the whole package will be very personalized in because of the design. Got

[00:18:50] Derek N. H. Notman: it. I just used them. Adam, I sent something to my top client. It was so easy. So I was able to type my own personalized message and select the appropriate gift, and then I get all the updates, Hey, it's been processed.

Hey, it's been shipped. Hey, it was received, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Super easy.

[00:19:07] Greetabl: Very cool. Yeah, Derek can do it, right? ,

[00:19:10] Derek N. H. Notman: Let's, let's

[00:19:11] H. Adam Holt: Barry's pretty capable of being honest with you very.

So that was our conversation with Joe Fisher from Greetable. That was, uh, it was kind of funny. I, I had a lot of smirks during that program.

What about

[00:19:23] Derek N. H. Notman: you? I enjoyed it. It was good. Especially the backhanded compliment at the end there, .

[00:19:27] H. Adam Holt: Oh, I had to keep that one in there. You know. Yeah. You need, That lets us laugh at each other. We gotta do

[00:19:32] Derek N. H. Notman: it. Well, you have to. No, it was good. , he's got some really interesting insights that I, I think a lot of advisors in our profession just wouldn't be able to.

That's true. I dunno, I thought it was a fun conversation. , what are some takeaways or thoughts that you had based on what he was

[00:19:48] H. Adam Holt: saying? Well, you know, he went so fast. . We had the luxury of hearing it more than once, everybody. So we thought we'd take some time to give you our takeaways as we try to do so I, there's a couple things I thought that were really valuable there. I thought that the doing something for next generation of your clients made a lot of sense. I mean, that seems so obvious.

You remember that commercial that was going around from one of the big wirehouses that the guy stands up and the groom says, I wanna thank this guy Joe. And it was, is my financial advisor, my dad's financial advisor who got us here. And he was part of the family. And that's the image I had, which was you can be the uncle or the aunt or whatever it might be that talks about how you're connected cuz the kid remembers you.

So I thought that made a lot of sense. Just gift. If you're gonna gift, don't take that same money and gift it to the kids. Totally. Or that would be really memorable. Probably the kid will keep it. A long time all the stuff we step on in our houses from our financial advisor. And I think that would be, and by the way they're likely to be your next client.

When we think about and talk about succession in so many of our podcasts and what's the next generation gonna look like, there's a reason why, you know, over 90% of the next generation leaves the advisor when their parents pass or. Lose their capacity. It's because they don't have a relationship with advisor.

Why not start when they're young? I thought that was really fun to, to talk about sending half birthdays. I thought that was pretty fun. That was pretty authentic. And I thought that was definitely memorable. I heard that one before. I thought that events has been interesting. I think especially post covid with all the sensitivities, people want to come, don't want to come.

They're nervous, they don't wanna mass. They wanna, and I think it, it's getting harder to. People physically together, since so many people have moved around. So I think events have been challenging, although I have seen some success in virtual events, even virtual events where you can bring, I, we do something actually at Asset Map, Derek, where we have a happy hour once a month where we hire Airbnb does this program, and this is not an endorsement for them, but we've had we've gotten everybody together for origami from a guy in Japan who's teaching us how to do origami and then flamenco dancing in Spain and we did.

Chocolate making from Jamaica. So there's lots of things that you compete. How cool is that? Yeah. Right. And everybody joined with their beer or wine and we did

[00:21:56] Derek N. H. Notman: a virtual session. Did your clients would eat that up.

[00:21:59] H. Adam Holt: Love it. That's great. Worked out great. You guys ever do any like taco

[00:22:03] Derek N. H. Notman: making classes?

We haven't

[00:22:04] H. Adam Holt: done that one yet. We did a cookbook though, where we invited everybody. We said, Send us all your recipes. So why couldn't we do a client cookbook? Have all your clients send you a recipe. Family recipe and you have it published. We had it published for 35 bucks a piece and we sent it to everybody.

And so you get a collection of recipes as being part of this community. Isn't

[00:22:24] Derek N. H. Notman: that cool? I love it. And what's even cooler is that this wasn't on

[00:22:27] H. Adam Holt: your list right now And you know what my recipe was. What was your recipe? It was tacos. Just to let you know. I hope they were kosher tacos. They were not, Well, I can't say they were kosher tacos.

That's not kosher. But I would tell you it had cheese and meat in it. . So there you have it. I'll. I think the other, the other things I thought were really good, I'd love to hear what you took away from it is . I thought it was pretty funny that, uh, talked about the old gift basket and holiday that gets, you know, eaten or the tin of popcorn.

. We have done that one. Oh, I've done that one too. I have, yeah I think I do like that popcorn. I will be honest with you. The three different corner flavor, right?

[00:23:02] Derek N. H. Notman: It's the cheese, it's the caramel, and then it's like the regular, right? It's like Chicago

[00:23:06] H. Adam Holt: style, like the cheese and the caramel mix

[00:23:08] Derek N. H. Notman: together.

Yes. Yep.

[00:23:10] H. Adam Holt: Love it. I can see, I can eat that whole tin myself, by the way. I have done it. I will admit to you a hundred percent. And the last takeaway, I think that's valuable. I thought. There is sometimes this idea that if I schedule it, it's not authentic. But the reality is, is that if you schedule it is important and what's what's important actually gets scheduled.

I thought that was a great statement. It reminded me to rethink about how I am being intentional about reach outs. And I have some ideas on that. We can maybe, if we have time we'll talk about it. So I thought that was really great. And of course, just be authentic. I thought that was a really important aspect.

What about you? What did you take away from this program?

[00:23:47] Derek N. H. Notman: I don't have the same number that you do here, Adam, but to your Tin of Popcorn one. I think that if you're gonna do that, Don't send it at Christmas or Hanukkah or whatever, send it at a different time of year. Like he was pointing out, send it like an off times of the year.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

[00:24:07] H. Adam Holt: You like New Year's, like after you make your re new resolution to lose a lot of weight, that's when you should send the

[00:24:11] Derek N. H. Notman: platform. Right. You haven't done your New Year's resolutions. Just yet, before you commit, I want you to gorge yourself on this 10 of popcorn. Let me show you how supportive

[00:24:20] H. Adam Holt: I am for your goals.

[00:24:23] Derek N. H. Notman: Here's what, Trust me. Trust me, I do support you, but I, I want you to eat this first .

[00:24:28] H. Adam Holt: You're

[00:24:28] Derek N. H. Notman: welcome. You're welcome, right? You're welcome. Well, I guess that's being intentional, which is to you all, in all seriousness, being intentional is really important and being more strategic about it, like you were saying, don't just do it haphazardly.

Schedule it Why are you doing this gifting things? What is the whole point of it? What are you trying to accomplish? And I liked his controversial comments about Hey, if you're scheduling an event, it really ends up just being for you. It's not for your clients so much.

It's more an ego thing. Like the advisor needs to take themselves out of the equation entire. Be altruistic with it. And if something comes back to you, that good stuff will happen. Just don't, Yeah. I don't know. It's not the advisor show at this point. We're showing gratitude here.

I liked this idea about saying birthday gifts to client kids. You we talked about this building the next generation of relationships. Extremely important. And showing your clients that you admired them. Hey, like I really like it. You're able to do this.

Or, I thought that that is really something outside of the realm of like just investment management or insurance or just general clinical conversations. If you're truly getting to know your clients and you should be able to tell them things that you admire, I think that's really important.

And a small plug for Greetable here, but outsource this. Once you've come up with your strategic plan, you know why you want a gift when you're gonna do it, you're never gonna be able to scale it or have the data points to know how to best do it compared to someone who else is doing.

And if we're asking our clients to outsource their investment, their insurance, their financial planning, all that stuff, We should probably take a page from our own book and outsource things that we need help with. You know what I mean?

That's

[00:26:12] H. Adam Holt: true. You know, I, it's funny because I remember, and Joe, for those that are paying attention to this, we didn't ask him to do this, but Joe offered in follow up, he said that he would give a 10% coupon to all of our listeners.

So we'll put that in the show notes. So thanks Joe for that. That was really cool.

You just said something that I really think is valuable and. When all of us as advisors communicate something authentic, I think we miss a moment. To also congratulate people on taking the action that we've asked them to take as our clients.

In other words, congratulations, Derek. I'm really proud that you've been able to follow the path and get into a systematic way of savings and not. Waste money in dumb things and you've done the hard work. Why couldn't we actually kill two birds of one stone here and actually show our authentic appreciation by giving them credit for the things that they're doing in this coaching relationship?

[00:27:05] Derek N. H. Notman: I love that idea. I have, and something just comes to mind I actually had a client review meeting today. And I remember the last time we had, had a conversation about like they had transitioned to retirement and she actually broke into tears, like happy tears because for all the years we've been working together in the planning we did, like they were able to accomplish something that was really important.

Yeah, right. So what a great opportunity to send a gift to recognize that, cuz no one else is saying that other than maybe like the sheet cake that they get at the office, as they're going away, party like, Yeah you're old and retired. Here's a piece of cake from the grocery store.

Goodbye. Do something a little bit more thoughtful, you know?

[00:27:41] H. Adam Holt: Well, that's a great idea. So, so what are we saying? What about sending a gift that has something to do with supporting something that they really care about at a milestone? Congratulations, Derek, you just crossed this net worth milestone.

I know it was a big moment, and so I'm sending you this thing. I mean it's, That's awesome. It has nothing to do with the holidays, right? And their birthday and or half birthdays. What can we do something like that? Can we actually establish milestones where we're going to give them accolade or recognition?

It doesn't have to be expensive. It could be as little as a text, but I think that's, that changes us from being. Gifting dummies to aligned with. We wanna reward the kinds of behavior we want to continue, right? Not just because you're alive on Christmas or not, just because it's your birthday and you're still here with us.

I think we can align our intentional merit with real. Things that deserve it and that should be aligned with how we help them achieve those things. So that it, I dunno, I think that's what I takes away. Make total. Well

[00:28:45] Derek N. H. Notman: The example I used in or chat with him, I sent a gift to my best client, my top client.

And it was thanking them because it was our anniversary when we started working together. There you go. Right? No one else is sending that one. And it's just like being totally grateful and showing them that I appreciate that relationship and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I mean, again. Yeah. Yeah. That, Anyways, I guarantee

[00:29:08] H. Adam Holt: their other advisor did not also send them.

Because they, they're probably cheating on you within two advisors, right? ?

[00:29:14] Derek N. H. Notman: Most of them are. That could be a whole episode. , are your clients cheating on you? Yeah.

[00:29:20] H. Adam Holt: Right. How's your allocation all messed up? Well, because I didn't tell you I have this money with this other guy who's totally risky. Anyway.

That's great. Let's jump into our community question. Thank you, Joe. That was fun. You made us laugh many times. And I think it's really cool what you're doing and we appreciate your effort with Greetable. This one came in. . Are you ready for this, Derek?

I wanna hear it. Let's go. All right, here you go. So this is, this came in from Mitch in New York City a LinkedIn direct message. So remember that you can message us through Rethink the Financial Advisor Podcast on LinkedIn or just directly. He writes a recent argument with one of my wire house buddies got stuck on this topic of fiduciary and we debated whether RAs or wirehouses are better for clients.

Can you guys have a good debate on this so we can finally settle it? Mitch, New York City. Thank you. What do you think? It's

[00:30:10] Derek N. H. Notman: circumstantial, isn't it? I think it is. I don't think it's black or white. Was actually having an interesting conversation with Dr. Megan Ltz. If you don't know where should go follower, but about this very thing, and it isn't black or white.

And I think there's a lot of hyperbole around it in that if you're not one in particular, then you're like bad. Yeah. However there are examples and if you'll let me digress a second. I can give you one.

[00:30:40] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, go for it.

[00:30:42] Derek N. H. Notman: I have a client reach out to me today and they sent me, and there's a LinkedIn post in this so you can go read the details, but essentially they were sold another product by a non.

RIA type of advisor, okay? And not that there's anything wrong with insurance based advisors or agents. There's definitely a need for those products, but the problem was, is that there was no process. They were sold something they ended up realizing they didn't need, and were never given any alternatives to think about.

There was no financial planning or comprehensive analysis done. It's like going to the bank. Hey, your CD's come and do, let's get you a new. And there there was nothing else there. So I think when you look at a situation like that, I think the fiduciary wins every single day of the week.

I know there's this best interest stuff going on. So I, yeah, I don't know. I think better for clients, I would say that it's, it is circumstantial, depending on your needs, and there's not one size fits all. But I think that no matter whether you're an raa, a wirehouse, insurance, bd, whatever, there are bad apples and there are ways you can screw your clients being all of those types of advisors.

[00:31:47] H. Adam Holt: You know what the funny thing is about this? I, the whole question of fiduciary. Ironically, everyone keeps going back to the same single point of contention, which is compensation. When the reality is fiduciary is about process, it's not about compensation. The presumption is that if you're compensated in a way that will justify an inpu process or a biased process.

And therefore you can't really be a fiduciary. But I know plenty of commissionable advisors who take people through. Prudent process that results in a suitable action. they're not really incentivized to do one thing. Both could have a process. That justifies why they're acting at a fiduciary. And also some could not follow a process that means they're non-acting a fiduciary.

I know way too many I RAs and warehouses that don't ask any questions about legal tax or insurance. Are they being a fiduciary? I don't know. That's a tough

[00:32:50] Derek N. H. Notman: one. And because then that the definition of fiduciary is even in question

[00:32:54] H. Adam Holt: then. Yes. Agreed. So is the fiduciary question about just about investment manage.

Or is it about holistic life decision? That for where there's clearly dependencies, this decision impacts that decision begets that big. It's that it's like a book from the Bible. And the bottom line is that if you don't understand those dependencies, how can you actually act in a client's best interest?

I don't know. So the irony behind the question, Mitch, is that I don't know whether RIAs can claim perfect, that they are a perfect fiduciary cuz they've got a pro.

No, it just says we understand how they get compensated. Whereas wirehouses tend to be mostly asset gatherer, salary compensated individuals. And so the argument is I'm a big believer, I think as you are, that you gotta be holistic from day one. You gotta recognize you don't know everything, which means you must be able to bring in other people to validate and verify the decisions you're helping people make, even if they're outside of your core expertise, which means at the end of the.

The only way to be a true fiduciary is to not be alone. That's what I happen to think. Ooh, that's

[00:33:55] Derek N. H. Notman: good. That's good. And I would agree with you on that one. I remember my early days I looked at it as a man. If I don't know the answer to this question, if I have to bring somebody else in, I've just diminished my own value and I might lose the sale or not get the client.

I'm like, That's not true at all, man. Double down on getting other resources and getting other experts around you. That's ego

[00:34:17] H. Adam Holt: bomb Again, that's ego bomb. Selfishness. Remember that Ego bomb Tom?

[00:34:20] Derek N. H. Notman: Yeah, that totally is. Look at the best entrepreneurs. They always, What's the quote like you have to be the dumbest one in the room, basically.

Right? You wanna surround yourself with people that are smarter

[00:34:32] H. Adam Holt: than. Yeah, look, I don't think it's anything different than what Joe brought up where you know you wanna do something, right? Go to an expert or learn from an expert, or do the research and build a process around it. There's no substitute for it.

There's no shortcuts. At the end of the day, if you wanna do what's right for your clients, sometimes you gotta bring in other expertise or just make sure you know more. Than everybody and you've done the due diligence, which of course, I don't know if anybody has time for that anymore, uh, except Michael Kitsis.

He's got enough degrees for all of us, But the, I think somehow he has enough time to get 18 different designations.

I don't think he sleeps. He probably doesn't. So anyway, this is, this has been fun. So I look for it. This is a bit of a tee up because we actually have another podcast coming immediately.

Follow this one. So make sure you pay attention to that one when it comes out, or you just listen to it. because we have brought someone who had just a real interesting and passionate belief around this, and we'll bring up some controversy. We're excited to have him. With that. Derek, it's always a pleasure seeing you.

I will see you very soon on the road.

[00:35:25] Derek N. H. Notman: Yes. I can't wait in a different time zone. It should be fun. Lots of dad jokes to enue. I've never seen a session where you get CE credit for dad jokes, but here we go. We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. But in the meantime, everyone, thanks for listening.

Please make sure to subscribe to the podcast, Share the podcast with somebody, anybody and follow us on LinkedIn. . if you have questions like we're open books send us a question, and there's a link. On our rethink podcast page on LinkedIn. Or you can even apply to be a guest on the show.

And maybe you'll be lucky enough to be picked. We'll see. Right? But until then, think about great dad jokes.

[00:36:03] H. Adam Holt: That's right. That's our gift to you, .

[00:36:05] Derek N. H. Notman: Should I end it with

[00:36:06] H. Adam Holt: one? Go for

[00:36:07] Derek N. H. Notman: it. Yes, do it. Let's see. What do you call a cold crocodile? What? What did you call? Cold crop? A refrigerator.

[00:36:16] H. Adam Holt: Oh, that's a good one. I'll use that with nobody today. .

[00:36:19] Derek N. H. Notman: Slow. So dumb. Thanks, Derek. , all best.

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