Ep28 - Rethink: Rethinking 65 Retirement Realities – Featuring Keena Pettijohn and Dorothy Hinchcliff

Keena Pettijohn and Dorothy Hinchcliff join Adam Holt and Derek Notman on an uncomfortable question: whether an advisor who has never retired, and is not yet 65, is actually qualified to guide someone through the transition. The conversation pushes back on a common assumption, that clients entering the withdrawal stage are not worth significant time investment, by pointing out that most household wealth in the United States sits with people over 50 and that this group is living longer and more actively than planning assumptions tend to allow. The strongest practical idea in the episode is the healthspan framing. If healthy years run shorter than total lifespan, a client planning an annual trip does not have twenty more years so much as a countable number of remaining occasions, and naming that number changes how a plan gets built.

• Whether advisors can credibly guide a transition they have not experienced themselves
• Why clients approaching retirement gravitate toward advisors of similar age
• The mistake of deprioritizing clients who have entered the withdrawal stage
• Building relationships with a client’s accountant, attorney, and adult children
• Healthspan versus lifespan, and counting remaining occasions rather than remaining years

Full timestamped transcript.

[00:00:29] Derek N. H. Notman: Adam, are you actually qualified to advise people transitioning to retire?

[00:00:38] H. Adam Holt: I hope so. I mean, I've been doing it for 25 years. I'm a CFP, right? Yeah. But you're not 65. Well, okay.

[00:00:48] Derek N. H. Notman: Have you retired?

[00:00:49] H. Adam Holt: Well, maybe, yes, actually I have retired. I retired from being an advisor and.

Immediately took on a job at five times the hours, you know, .

[00:00:58] Derek N. H. Notman: Yeah, that's true. I don't, if I call that retirement,

[00:01:00] H. Adam Holt: this is my job after retirement is to be a FinTech CEO, but no, you're right. No, look that, that's a really great question. Most of the advisors, if you're listening to this and you're not over 65, I think it might be a wake up call.

What do you think? Totally.

[00:01:19] Derek N. H. Notman: You know, if, if we're supposed to be, I mean, this is one of the most instrumental. Transitions. We will go through in our lives. One of the most impactful, largest things that we hope we never have to come back to. right. Mm-hmm , you know, you don't wanna unretire if that, I don't think that's a word by the way, but can be, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

say it is for this

[00:01:42] H. Adam Holt: come out of retirement.

[00:01:43] Derek N. H. Notman: Yes. You can come out of time. Yeah. But so you

chose to come out of retirement, although I don't think you actually retired. Um, but. It's a really big deal, cuz everyone is going for that, that mark. And we talk about all this retirement planning. I help people with retirement planning, but if you haven't actually retired yourself and you're not 65, are you actually qualified

to do it?

[00:02:09] H. Adam Holt: You know, I just realized something Derek. So many of the people who have been in advice for many years and you know, that the average age of a financial advisor is still pretty high up there, right. Upper fifties. And in some cases, some people will say, actually, it's lower sixties. Now there's thankfully a lot of younger people coming into this space.

But you think about somebody who's about to retire. They tend to feel really comfortable around those who are of similar age. And if you listen back to episode 27 with J argon, he talked about having. Different generational association with each of the clients, right. When you think about it, I'm going into retirement.

Do I want my advisor to be 35? Yes. If I want them to be with me for the next 30 years, but do I trust that they know the questions to ask beyond the financial questions? In other words, it turns out as you're gonna hear in our interview with Dorothy and Kena. Maybe we're not actually asking the deeper questions that somebody who's 65 is really asking themselves.

And it may have nothing to do with your asset base or your insurance base or your asset allocation,

[00:03:17] Derek N. H. Notman: or even your age as

an advisor.

[00:03:20] H. Adam Holt: Even so well, let's talk about our guests because we get the opportunity to, to interview some really, really cool people. And one of the things that came up for us and was actually present Derek in our last question, if you remember, our community question was talking about how to really approach retirement and we've been always, I think, in our industry, Approaching it very mechanically, right?

You're gonna have enough money to burn down. You've got your distribution rate. You've got your guaranteed income sources. We tend to think of it and be called upon by our clients to go very technical on this one, show me when I'm gonna run outta money. Gimme probability use this awesome financial planning tool, but I think something got, awakened in this discussion with Dorothy and Keenan.

Now tell us a little bit about Dorothy where is she coming from?

[00:04:05] Derek N. H. Notman: Her and Kena really cool background. So Dorothy Hinch cliff, her past, she was the managing editor and executive editor at financial advisor magazine, which, as you know, is a huge publication, I'm sure most of you listening have read it or even get it on a regular basis.

And she was there for 20 years. , she also was one of the architects of that magazine's first invest in women conference. Really, really cool. And currently she is the publisher and CEO at rethinking 65, they want to be this indispensable resource for advisors to help clients plan for a long life. That's really well lived and purposeful, not just the technical stuff you just mentioned about,

it's more of the qualitative stuff. And then also they help give advisors a greater, voice,

it's just really funny how rethinking 65 and we've got rethink. I love how that just aligned for us, but that's what they're doing over there, but that's only half of the guest list. Tell us

about Ken?

[00:05:04] H. Adam Holt: Well, keen is a force and I don't know if you've ever kind of paid attention to what's going on in the banking and the insurance sites.

And, you know, Keena is the CEO and founder of life logics consultancy, and they've worked forever in the years of, of banking and insurance. And Keen's been an executive in these spaces. And I actually met her at B a conference, which is banking insurance, uh, and some other things. That's not what SME , but I never really remember.

It's one of it's one of the preeminent conferences that I got invited to in banking. I met Kena there she's, you know, just such a passionate, uh, whirling DVI just knows everybody. And she's actually been involved in financial planning. In fact, the roots of financial planning the last 20, 30 years before it was even cool before you and I got into this space, she was doing stuff that.

Are, you know, blessed enough to talk about now because they were pioneers such as Kena. So Kena has a great attitude. And I think you'll appreciate Derek what she had to say. , let's jump , to that interview. I think everybody pay attention here, because this is really important. Think about now the context of the question we started with mm-hmm , what's it like really to.

[00:06:10] Keena: I had to rethink 65 and shortly I'll be rethinking 70. And I, the joke was that if I would've known how popular I would've become when I turned 70, I would've turned 70 earlier. So I do a lot of research about people in my age. and you had asked about my impression of, of financial advice and some of the key things that I'm intrigued with because I face them every day and I didn't even know it existed until I found research to back into it.

And actually working with someone that understands what it's like to be this age is very important. So what I learned that bothers me is that health span is less than lifespan. I didn't even know there was a difference between healthspan and lifespan. And I think I have to start there because obviously the average age expectancy for.

An American is in the seventies. And I didn't realize that the research is showing that 12.4 years of my life is going to be in the unhealthy area. And that scares me. It scares me in the fact that they show a statistically that people that are over 65. Yes. I'm one of them. 88% of them are managing at least one chronic condition and nearly two thirds of them, have dementia and some other health related issues.

One of the concerns is when an advisor is sitting down with someone, are you seeing that the bills are not being paid? Are you paying the bills, These things become a reality. We do have lots of things going on in our lives and our ability to do the day to day. It becomes more challenging. This is a true story. My husband's friend, his mother calling and calling her doesn't answer the.

Strangely enough. He draws to the west coast of Florida knocks on the door, breaks down the door and his mom is sitting in an apartment in a fetal position with no air conditioning, no phone, and no one to call that. Absolutely got me going. Remember him turning 70 that get my affairs in order. And from the financial advisor perspective that you start to realize how serious it is to get.

[00:08:38] H. Adam Holt: So that's just some really interesting stuff. And I think that's really relevant to the financial advisor world. I'm really curious Dorothy, with the work that you've been doing, especially around publishing, creating a lot of fantastic content for our space. Talk to us about what you're seeing in the financial advice market today.

[00:08:57] Dorothy: Important thing with rethinking 65, which by the way, is aimed at advisors, serving clients who are 50 and older, because they're when you become 50, you start thinking about that second half of life and how you're gonna make it purposeful and really meaningful for you when you're going through a lot of transitions that no one really has a good roadmap for because people weren't living.

Old until really fairly recently, longevity has really increased. So the opportunities in life are also much greater. It's definitely true. What Ken was talking about. People do have to contend with health issues, but there are a lot of people who are also living healthier. And a lot of those people are clients of financial advisors.

In fact, there are 75 million people in the United States now who are 60 or older, and that represents 30% of the working. Age adults, meaning people 18 or over. So we're talking about a huge number of people. The problem that I've seen in the financial advisory industry is that there are significant number of financial advisors who.

Look at serving older people as not that profitable, meaning that, oh, we're, they're entering the withdrawal stage. That this means that they aren't really a good demographic to invest a lot of time into. And I think that is a total mistake. I think that. People because they are living older and they are living more active.

And the people in this country who have the money are people 50 and older. So no matter who you are as an advisor, whether you're younger or you're older, you have to be concerned about this market. And it has to involve more than. Coming up with investments for people. A lot of the things Keena mentioned are very important to talk about because you want to be that trusted advisor.

You want to be able to keep not only managing the money, but having a real relationship with your clients as well as their children. And that is, I think one of the key things that is talked about. But I honestly see advisors focusing a little too much on investment management while that is important.

That's how most of them get paid. It's not enough going into the future, especially when you look at all the changes that are happening in the industry. And I think advisors need to pay a lot more attention to

this.

[00:11:50] Derek N. H. Notman: Thank you. Do yet. You really bring up an interesting point about advisors being profitable in what markets to go after or not.

What are you seeing? What tips strategies, tactics would you say to advisors? How can they serve that market while still running a profitable business? Indefinitely?

[00:12:09] Dorothy: First of all, I think you have to look at the idea that especially in the current economic situation with inflation and other concerns, When we talk about withdrawals, it's not as though people are withdrawing all their assets in the first five years, the whole idea is they need to be invested to grow their assets, to have enough to live over a lifetime.

Really? From my standpoint, maybe when you're 90, you're in a position where you're drawing down your. To a level where you might not have much or you're thinking about leaving a legacy to your children. From 60 to 90, I think you really have to be concerned with how to maintain and even grow your asset base.

So I think that advisors who wanna work with this demographic need to be sensitive to how can I keep growing assets for these clients, even in the face. Distributions. And the other part is that I think in order to have the kind of relationship with them, that you're gonna maintain over the decades, you need to do better outreach, sending an email to clients once every quarter with generic information is not the kind of outreach that people really.

Look for, and that helps build relationships. And the reason that I say that is because you have to know your clients well enough to be sending out some targeted things that when I say targeted, it's still gonna apply to more than one person. This is a whole new. Experience that is just going

to explode in the next 10 years.

[00:14:11] H. Adam Holt: I appreciate what you're both saying. And I'm curious, keen, because you make this illusion to the fact that you're going through these experiences as a financial advocate for people for years. And obviously you've seen a lot of how this industry has changed with respect to advice, delivery, sales, distribution, banking, and so forth.

I'm really curious. What do you think that the advisory community really needs to hear that other distribution models haven't been talking about now? Obviously Dorothy's been doing this with rethinking 65, which is really great to see, try change the conversation or at least add to the conversation.

Keena. What do advisors need to hear?

[00:14:51] Keena: That's a great question. What do they need to hear? So when they're having a conversation with their clients and they're hosting family meetings, there's a lot of information that is being transmitted. And Adam, I've seen your solution asset method phenomenal on the visualization of information, but there are clues that are being given throughout this conversation to have that dialogue.

If you are dealing with the, the trust account? No, you're not gonna necessarily be doing an insurance review, but obviously. Planning their legacy is critical. Having that conversation with the heirs, how they want their living wishes to be held, to make certain that they have as something as simple as a health proxy.

So they're giving you all of these clues in the dialogue. So if I had to sit with an advisor and I have three generations at one time, I may even have more. And I'm looking at the person that is planning the legacy. I'm gonna make certain that they do, do they have, in fact, the living will, that's just boiler played.

They may or may not, from that matter, I may not be part of the trio of the accountant and the attorney. Do they also have a designation of the healthcare surrogate? I want to know. So when I'm sitting there with them, maybe they're talking about their favorite foundation. I know I have been approached.

Who do I wanna give to a charity? For an advisor start thinking, not necessarily of the assets under management, but the generations that you are dealing with immediately and beyond. And it takes not only an educator perspective, as you said, literacy, and Northy people are living longer, but you and I heard this and I had written this years ago, you start to become from, the trusted advisor to more of the life.

And I didn't create that understanding, but what that means is as money is transmitted transpired, inherited, you are now looking at it from a 360 degree perspective. So it's not just insurance, it's not those they're assets that they're banging with all the activity that is happening. And you could monitor that becomes a conversation of value, Adam, to become more of a life advisor.

It's not just statements, it's not just bank activity. It's understanding their relationships who can get access to the doctor's records. I know I had that problem with my own mother. I was not designated as having access. I think starting, I don't want it to be a religious experience, so to speak. But when I was an advisor, thousands of years ago, and my office was done park at 57th, my joke was if something should happen to you.

Who do I call? And I immediately became part of the gifted three. I, as the trusted advisor was immediately introduced to the account was immediately introduced to the attorney. Simple question.

[00:17:58] H. Adam Holt: You just, it's funny, cuz you just touched on why it matters to the advisors, right? What's in it for the advisors.

Very often we run this challenge where we know it's the right thing to do. It serves the customer, it's in their best interest to look out for their bigger financial needs and all the branches that touch it, that will really affect what they care about and what keeps them up at night. And you. It's probably not about the portfolio investment allocation, despite the fact that we are typically paid in that measure.

It's not what we're always valued for. So I'm curious, what are the things that we all think about? Why is it important for the advisor to take action on this now in this empathetic view, what's in it for the advisor? What does it mean to them? If they do it, what it means if they don't do it,

[00:18:43] Dorothy: Dorothy?

Well, I think what it means if they do it, is that they're going to have. Longer lasting, stronger relationships with their clients. I think Adam, that it's going to be easier and easier to just switch to someone else to handle your investments. And really a lot of investment management is not really all that different from one advisor to the next.

So I think that by. Building the relationship by showing that you're helping people with actually things that are part of life that are more important than the underlying investments. They people wanna have goals. They wanna be able to. Do certain things and the money allows them to do it. But a lot of times people aren't really sure what to do or how to reach those goals and an advisor.

I think that combines that with the traditional services of managing investments is gonna stand out. I know that we've been talking about this for a while. And why isn't it happening at a faster pace? That would be an interesting question to talk to a number of people about, but I think part of it is too that there has to be better, uh, ways for people to appreciate what advisors do and pay for that.

Some of them are moving in this direction, but a lot of advisors aren't really sure how to get compensated for doing these sorts of things. So I think we're at the beginning stages of how to define that and how to make it part of. A conversation that a client would say, okay, I get that.

I, this is something I really need. And I think serving a lot of these other issues will help clients understand that it's advisor does a lot more for them to than just manage their money.

[00:21:02] Keena: I just wanna say one thing and I know Adam, you're gonna jump in. When I had asked, who do I call? If something should happen to you, it's very easy to grow a business when you have.

A relationship in front of you. Everyone wants scalability. So here you have a relationship, whether you're getting all the money or not. When I ask permission about who do I call or I ask the question, then they would provide me with the accountant and the attorney. I would say, do you mind if I introduce myself to the accountant and the attorney, this was a gold mine to me because I'd indicated that my name is, and I work at and I work with, and I started to present myself as that professional, little by little, I started to receive referrals from the attorney and the accountant.

So this is an opportu. In terms of working there's, they're very warm leads and it also gives you much more opportunity with a face to face right then and there it's one of the most direct marketing programs. I know.

[00:22:04] H. Adam Holt: So that was kind of interesting, Derek, you know, I mean that, that interview went in a different direction than I thought it was gonna go, but I hope advisors were listening.

What did you take away right off the.

[00:22:15] Derek N. H. Notman: I think in general, what I really liked about this episode and this, this conversation was that it focused a lot more on the qualitative side of things and that there, there is so much more to this thing. We call retirement. And what it actually means to our clients and to their kids and their grandkids.

And it's not just Monte Carlo simulations and, you know, cash flow projections and blah, blah, blah. So I, I found it refreshing that we were able to rethink this topic from another angle. So that was my overall general take. I did have a couple takeaways. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well, but.

Some of the things I came away with. There's so there's so much here. I would encourage people to go back and listen for sure.

But in general, people are living healthier, longer lives, post 65. If we call that the magic retirement number. And it's true. I've been guilty of this myself. I've been like, eh, I don't know if I really wanna bring on clients in that age bracket, they're spending all their money. That's gonna hurt my revenue.

I'm gonna go find the 50 year old. That's got an old rollover instead. Right. And I understand that that thought process, but Dorothy and Kenna bring up some really valid points. People are living much longer. And if you have 30 years in retirement, well, that. I think that's a challenge and an opportunity where why can't we help our clients in that stage?

Why can't we build a really profitable business, helping them make it through that, right. And to make it through that we have to help manage the money. We have to help them grow it and so forth.

[00:23:56] H. Adam Holt: Let me stop you there because I have a good number of clients in our firm that are in that retirement distribution.

And I find that they're much more loyal. because disconnecting their advisor, I think fundamentally from their plan would be like kicking the driver, , out of your, your, your tour van halfway through the desert, like yeah, no, like I'm committed, I'm in

[00:24:17] Derek N. H. Notman: this and let's go,

[00:24:18] H. Adam Holt: right. You need your guide, even if you don't like them and they, you know, maybe they smell or something.

I don't, I think the point is, is that there's a lot more loyalty when you're in the mix. Uh, so I really thought that that, that argument towards. Advisors being concerned around monetizing, uh, clients in their, uh, later years, I've not experienced that. I found them to be better loyal and actually even better refers, believe it or not.

I, I would agree

[00:24:43] Derek N. H. Notman: with that. And unless you're dealing with a demographic that really is paycheck to paycheck, maybe they only have social security or very little assets. Okay. I understand that. But if you're dealing with middle market, upper market, whatever you wanna call it, I think there's a massive opportu.

And it, I think it's important that if you wanna start a business today or transition your business, or just stay with what you're doing as an advisor, it's okay to have this distribution challenge with your clients. And if anything, it's more of a fun opportunity. Like, Hey, how do I help them through this thing and manage their money and grow it?

[00:25:19] H. Adam Holt: Oh, I, I love that you say that because I, I have to tell you, getting to retirement has been relatively easy getting through it. And the distribution is when I think we really earn our paycheck because it's those decisions you need to make every year. Is this the right distribution?

Do I have tax law selling? Do I need to still have these insurance? Should we put 'em in trust? What does this mean for the kids? Oh, we've already funded the UCA. There's the distribution plan is actually really challenging. And the irony behind this, and you asked this question beginning, is, are financial advisors actually?

Qualified enough to really deal with that distribution cuz we know it mechanically. We know it from a text. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing it is a whole nother story unless you've got a whole boatload of guaranteed income coming in and, and really the clients don't care so much making it sustainable is really challenging in this interest rate environment as well as inflation environment.

So I think people have to get off their heels and start leaning into the empathetic side, uh, and not just the numbers as well to be. Well, that,

[00:26:17] Derek N. H. Notman: and that brings me to my last point. And the whole topic of , this podcast today is maybe we're not 65 years old as an advisor. Maybe we haven't retired.

We've probably helped a lot of people do it and we've gained a lot of insight. And as Kena and Dorothy, even say like a lot of this is relationship and to stop, thinking about just the investments, but focus on the real relationships. And when you're having those conversations and you're talking about like, What does seven Sundays in a row look like for you?

Right? Instead of going to work every day, what does that look like? , what does your quality of life look like now? What makes you happy? How are we gonna use your money to help you do that? If you start having those conversations, even if you haven't retired yourself, but you're gaining insight from the others, you have helped retire.

And you're just asking these questions, man, that is gonna resonate a. With your client base and they're gonna wanna stay in that tour bus with you, no matter how bad you smell

[00:27:18] H. Adam Holt: to use your analogy. right. I dunno where I'd come up with this crazy stuff. That was that's great, Derek. You know, I kept thinking actually to myself, a trip that I took, , To the middle east and we were at a tour bus and of course we had a guide and I'm thinking I'm very happy.

We have this tour guide right now. Right. even if he's not pointing out all of the great things, I'm very happy that we have. You know, I thought that was really cool. And, and I would add to keen said something really interesting that I thought was a great phrase. She said, health span is less than lifespan.

And she realized it as she said, turning 70 this year. That this is something she had to be now intimately conscientious about not just theoretical, right? Whether she experienced, she told you the stories of her husband's friend, as well as her own mother. And I think that was really important. We should all be listening for stories like that because what, going back to what you said, it's not about.

How much, , you wanna spend five, six, $10,000 a month after tax. Okay. I got that. Mathematically worked out. What do you wanna be doing every day? What's gonna make you happy. What's gonna create longevity. It's gonna be purpose. It's gonna be intentionality. It's gonna be doing the things you love and care about.

And if you haven't figured those out, maybe as advisors, we can actually help people figure out what those things are. Maybe we should be asking different questions than what tax rate should I assume in your later years, those are, those are where we tend to default. Cuz we think the technical is what clients are asking for.

But let's also maybe ask him, Hey, by the way, when we drive through this area, what foods do you love? What do you wanna see yourself doing? Tell, paint me a picture of what that looks like, and let me help you achieve that because it's very rarely about the money. It's about what the money gives us. If we focus on what the money gives us and we're part of that process, we connect ourselves emotionally to that process throughout the entirety of that journey.

And I think that's really important when she said something about health span. Derek, what I heard was something that Jim Ron, , had talked about on a tape that I listened to 20 years ago. You just said tape, was it? Yeah. An audio tape.

[00:29:12] Derek N. H. Notman: Was that on your Walkman?

[00:29:13] H. Adam Holt: No, it was in our, it was in our.

Played audio cassettes on road trips. That's what my mom made me do. She would make me listen to Tony Robbins and Jim Rome and, uh, a whole bunch of other speakers when I was a teenager. Okay. I, I it's all her fault by the way. And, but what I remember that is sparked this idea for me. And I really want advisors to hear this.

If you're listening to this, I'm, I'm assuming since you're here, you're listening. he asked this question about, of a client and this is something you can do today when you hit retirement. How many more years of life do you think you'll have? Well, let's play a plan for another 20 years, as you said, life expectancy is, is going up.

But for those with means, we know it's obviously pretty high. Yep. What do you do every year that you love? Well, I go fishing with my son every year, so we've got the next 20 years to do it. And Keen's argument is like, well, , if healthspan is less than lifespan, then maybe you really only have 15 years to do it.

Jim Rome's argument would say you don't have 15 more years. You have 15 more times. And if you miss one, now you have 14. Now you have 13, and those are moments and opportunities that we can talk about to motivate people, to say, okay, let's be intentional about, we are absolutely gonna fund this project.

This is how we're gonna do it. Let's think it out like a vision board. I know you're a big fan of that and let's actually help our clients. Let's spend a half an hour with our clients thinking about how they're gonna go fishing with their son for the next 15 more times. Cause this is how precious.

Dude.

You've just like with that quote in your cassette tape, like that is like,

imagine,

[00:30:44] Derek N. H. Notman: but that, that resonates so much, like you tell me, I've only got 15 fishing trips with my son left before I'm gone. Yeah.

[00:30:52] H. Adam Holt: Oh crap. Maybe, maybe,

[00:30:55] Derek N. H. Notman: right. Like, yeah. You know, 15 years. Oh, yeah, I got plenty of time. No, but when you start thinking about it like that, like,

time to get serious. What is actually important to me? Mm-hmm

[00:31:05] H. Adam Holt: that's true. Really

[00:31:07] Derek N. H. Notman: cool. Isn't it? I love that. Scary. I love that. It's scary, but it helps you get clear on what you actually want to do well for

[00:31:14] H. Adam Holt: yeah. As a life coach for my clients. Wouldn't I be important for me to point out you have 15 times, not 15 years on a spreadsheet and, and that's, that's an important, because maybe we should be going twice a year.

We should double that to get the 30 times. So by the time we're 90, we've had 30 fishing trips together. Think about the legacy I just created. And doesn't that give you the chills? I mean, it does, dude. It does, for me, I wanna be part of that. Do you think that client's ever gonna leave me by the way, if we're talking about this real business standpoint or the kid.

No, or the kid. And, and we've talked about multi-generational approach to planning. Yeah. If I help you achieve those things that you care most about. Oh man. Golden. Is this really a business decision? No golden. It's

[00:31:55] Derek N. H. Notman: awesome. It's awesome. I mean, that talk about being a good human and advisor at the same time.

[00:32:01] H. Adam Holt: And I think that's the point of thinking about what somebody over age 65 is actually now top of mind, they're thinking, okay. Yes, yes. I'm I got here so that I can live a certain lifestyle. And by the way, it's also on the opposite side, which is I'm gonna deal with issues that nobody wants to talk about.

Who has those healthcare proxies. And I think we need to do a better job as advisors to help the clients be aware that this event is gonna happen. This event is gonna happen. And I wanna know what our plan is. So let's take 15 minutes. Let's take a piece of paper. Let's write out what our plan is. What are we gonna do in this event?

Nobody knows by the way, let's figure it out. So at least we have an awareness of it. I think it's really key, , to do that. And I'll, I'll leave with this last point. What I took away from this, and obviously it seems like a lot. I started asking my clients at the very end of our inspection process, which we called the six LS.

And you can look it up if you're interested, but I started asking people what's your a hundred year legacy. And I got hoped on this idea because I realized that we were always planning for a 30, 40 year time horizon or less, depending on how old the people are. And it allowed me to help them think beyond their life.

To actually what's the impact. They're gonna leave on the planet. And of course, some people would say, well, I don't know. I want my kids to have enough money, but not too rich. Some said, I wanna have this huge, you know, dynasty trust. And I wanna make my next generation. So always remember my name. Everybody had a different answer here.

Some said they wanted to make a difference in the planet. They wanted to do charitable things. So I think it's a great question that we can use in our own practice to say, Hey, you know what? I'm curious, Derek, what's the a hundred year legacy plan. Typically someone's gonna. I don't know what Don never thought about.

What's what do you mean? Yeah. What do you mean? But it that's, it's stopped provoking. It means whatever you want it to be. But the question is how is my team, my financial advisor team gonna help you achieve your next a hundred year legacy plan. We're gonna make choices today, but we're gonna need to tour guide this one.

We're gonna need to be part of this process if you really wanna plan out the next a hundred years and by the. Nothing prevents us from thinking or doing and executing that kind of plan. The problem is no, one's asking the question. So of course there's no plan. So the plan is default plan, which is the government will take its piece and the kids will blow the rest and the grandkids will see nothing and okay.

And it starts over. You're gone maybe 50 years. No one remembers you. That's the difference. So I love that question

[00:34:24] Derek N. H. Notman: and you know what, that doesn't apply just to high net worth individual. That can apply to any market segment. It really can. So awesome takeaways, Adam.

[00:34:33] H. Adam Holt: Totally.

[00:34:33] Derek N. H. Notman: Let's get into a cool community question and we'll wrap this thing up for everybody.

[00:34:40] H. Adam Holt: So this is perfect because Derek, you know, obviously I follow your LinkedIn content and your post it, you recently made on LinkedIn went viral, where you were cutting your tie.

And then Richard Branson got involved in this. So how are you getting so much growth on linked?

[00:34:56] Derek N. H. Notman: If I were to sum it up in one sentence, be a creator instead of a creeper create don't creep. It's that simple.

[00:35:07] H. Adam Holt: Weird. We're gonna have to do an episode about that. Yeah.

[00:35:10] Derek N. H. Notman: Yeah. Are you a creeper? yeah. And, and I'll tell you, I used to be a creeper and I stopped. I got, I just, yeah, it doesn't work. , I think unfortunately, a lot of advisors in our space do, and we've probably talked a little bit about marketing and well,

we can do a deep dive on this. Talk a little bit more about it, and by no means, am I an influencer, but I've had some decent traction. Let's put it that way. I've got some learnings because.

[00:35:33] H. Adam Holt: Most influencers are humble. Like yourself, you are clearly an influencer. So I, I would say, yeah, well, listen, people are following what you're doing and they're listening to your voice cuz you've figured out a way to magnify it.

Uh, you know, I think maybe through podcasting maybe, possibly,

[00:35:48] Derek N. H. Notman: maybe, maybe. Yeah. That whole, yeah. Boy. I wonder, no, we should. We should think about starting a

[00:35:52] H. Adam Holt: podcast. that's a great, wait, why are we recording this? Well, yeah, I thought these

[00:35:57] Derek N. H. Notman: were just fun.

[00:35:57] H. Adam Holt: Zoom conversations. Yeah. I've been recording our zoom conversations for the last year.

That's what I've been doing. That's kinda creepy. Creeping. That's pretty funny. Well, that's great. Well, you know what? Listen, we have to wrap up, but I, first of all, we want to thank keen and Dorothy, great. Insights and of course, awesome contributions to our greater space. They're great. I keep doing what you're doing.

Of course, check out what they're doing. Check out life logics, check out, rethinking 65, contribute to , that periodical. And I think, I think you're gonna see more and more great stuff from the two of them. Certainly in the social medias are really starting to expand. Uh, but also of course, opportunity to be empathetic, make sure that you subscribe to rethink, tell your friends about it, continue to magnify this content, our hope, uh, for Derek and I is to mentor you and as well as to learn from you.

So also find a way to contribute back to us like this. Send us notes, go to LinkedIn on our rethink page and ask us questions so that we pose that. Any closing thoughts for me, Derek?

[00:36:52] Derek N. H. Notman: No, ma'am, I'm just, I'm loving this. Thank you. It was a great episode advisors listening. Like we are here for you. This is for you.

Tell us how we can help you. And we may or may not

[00:37:04] H. Adam Holt: but we'll try, we'll try. We may or may not be listening or be empathetic, but we're trying

[00:37:09] Derek N. H. Notman: well, we'll try. We'll we'll think about it. We'll try. We're rethink dude. Well, awesome chat with you. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll catch

[00:37:16] H. Adam Holt: you soon. You got it.

I'll see you. Wealth management awards this week. Yeah, buddy. Good luck.

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