Ep12 - Rethink: 10 Things Advisors Shouldn't Do (Just Sayin')

In a deliberately lighter, year-end departure from their usual debate format, Adam and Derek run through a top-10 list of things financial advisors should never do — starting with 'don't sleep with your clients' and touching on compliance, disclosure, and professional boundaries along the way. The tone is playful throughout, explicitly pitched as something listeners could put on a Bluetooth speaker at a holiday gathering, but the underlying list still functions as a real (if irreverent) checklist of professional pitfalls. The hosts close out 2021 by thanking listeners and previewing a strong guest lineup for the year ahead. No outside guest appears in this episode.

• Client relationship boundaries and outside business activities (OBAs)
• Compliance and disclosure pitfalls advisors should avoid
• Jargon and communication mistakes that hurt client trust
• Sales-driven habits vs. relationship-driven best practices
• A humorous, list-style format as a year-end wrap-up

Full timestamped transcript.

[00:00:00] H. Adam Holt: Welcome to Rethink: The Financial Advisor Podcast. My name is Adam Holt.

[00:00:06] Derek Notman: And this is Derek Notman. We are your hosts, both veteran advisors and fintech CEOs who challenge the status quo, question everything, and have fun doing it.

[00:00:16] H. Adam Holt: Hear honest commentary on the challenges facing advisors today.

[00:00:21] Derek Notman: And be part of a community where we can all rethink the profession.

Now on to our episode.

Adam, how you doing, my man? I, uh, you know, it's kind of like the end of the year wrap-up. I think we should do something fun for our listeners, so we're gonna kind of deviate from our normal format, so your mom and my wife are gonna have something different to listen to. But I've got a question for you here.

What should advisors never do? Give me a top 10 list, man.

[00:00:55] H. Adam Holt: You want all 10?

I

[00:00:57] Derek Notman: want all 10, but let's break them out. Let's, let's... We're gonna, we're gonna have a little bit of fun. Let's talk about each one here.

[00:01:04] H. Adam Holt: All right. You ready? Here we go. Here, if you're an advisor, number one, don't sleep with your clients.

What

el- what else you want to know? You want to know-

[00:01:17] Derek Notman: Well, why? What, what do you mean? Tell me, like, don't sleep with your clients. Like, it's kind of a broad statement.

[00:01:24] H. Adam Holt: Yeah. Well, I'm sure Compliance doesn't like it, but I, I would say- ... if they care these days.

Do you have to disclose that as an OBA?

An OBA? I guess if, if there's compensation between, perhaps.

You know, it actually depends on how many hours, uh, you can dedicate to that- This

is true, right? Yeah.

Right This is true. Otherwise, you don't need to disclose it on your U4. Um, no. What do you mean? I... Well, what I meant-

[00:01:51] Derek Notman: What do you mean?

[00:01:53] H. Adam Holt: Well, I, I think that advisors should not work with their family.

[00:01:58] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:01:58] H. Adam Holt: And I, I have personal experience with this one. I mean, as much as my family... and I love you guys, if you're listening There is so much emotional aspect tied up in this that I think sometimes it can cause unnecessary angst or inaction or resentment or all other fun emotional- Oh, man ... words that set us back, and then ultimately we don't take positive action towards helping them the way that we would normally help our clients.

[00:02:28] Derek Notman: You can't be objective like you would with, with someone you're not sleeping with.

[00:02:34] H. Adam Holt: Right. Well, I mean, you don't sleep with all members of your family hopefully.

[00:02:37] Derek Notman: No.

[00:02:37] H. Adam Holt: No. I guess-

[00:02:37] Derek Notman: No ... sleep in the same house, let's say, right? That's right. Exactly. Or, you know, whatever. Yeah. Um- Exactly.

[00:02:42] H. Adam Holt: I

[00:02:43] Derek Notman: think-

[00:02:43] H. Adam Holt: But I

[00:02:44] Derek Notman: think... Yeah. I think you're spot on.

Like, I didn't... Because of how I started, I, I was halfway across the country from any family when I started. I didn't work with anyone. I didn't work with any of my family members until, like, three or four years in, and I am so grateful that I didn't- Mm-hmm ... 'cause it does get super messy. It can get really messy f- like family get-togethers are not the same anymore.

It's... Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're so- Well,

[00:03:08] H. Adam Holt: I mean, obviously, if you were a better financial advisor and you gave- ... better returns, then maybe they wouldn't resent you so much. But I... Look, when, when we talked about insurance placement and that with- when that was treated like a commodity, it's like, "Help. Can you help my- help me?"

Yeah, I think almost that's- it's less me- it's more mechanical, right? Yeah. I can certainly place or my team can go find out the best products for you, sure. They're happy to help you and, and do that stuff. But the challenge is, is that when you're the financial advisor in the greater family, you're looked at as basically being a resource.

It's like having a doctor in the family, right? You got something wrong with you. Yeah. Instead of calling your doctor, you call the family member like, "Hey, Uncle Joe, we've got this, uh, you know, sty. What do we do?" You know? And I think that's more comfortable, but when we talk about finances, it can be really awkward.

Um, and I have also found the opposite, Derek, which is sometimes family members that really need help, they don't think they can come to you or should come to you, and it gets all awkward. Yeah. So the question is, is I, I don't mean to say that we shouldn't help our own family, right? We should take our knowledge and apply it to our own home and, of course, our, the people we care about.

Um, that doesn't mean we should have a business relationship with them.

[00:04:17] Derek Notman: Yeah, you can- That's what I mean ... help without selling them, right?

[00:04:19] H. Adam Holt: That's what I mean. Yeah.

[00:04:21] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:04:21] H. Adam Holt: I'd rather be an advocate to my family and say, "Listen, I think that, that, that recommendation is good or garbage. Uh, and I wouldn't do it this or ask this question."

I literally was on the phone with my aunt the other day, uh, helping walking her through how she should structure parts of her estate because, but she'd never felt comfortable talking to anybody. Yeah. It wasn't until I created a space to say, "I'm happy to help you, and I'll... You know, it's not a business.

I'm just gonna help you."

[00:04:43] Derek Notman: Just help. Yeah.

[00:04:43] H. Adam Holt: That. So that's, that's my first recommendation. I see advisors creating a bunch of weirdness that they could probably avoid. Um, and what I've done in the p- and most recently is when I have somebody who says, "Well, I don't trust anybody but you," I say, "Listen, here's who I trust.

Here's who manages my money." Exactly. And then I refer them to someone who I know is gonna look after them.

[00:05:04] Derek Notman: I think that's really good. So-

[00:05:06] H. Adam Holt: What's on your list? I wanna hear. What, what, what's on your list? Well- Top 10.

[00:05:10] Derek Notman: I've, I've, I've got a list here, but we can maybe bounce around a little bit, but-

[00:05:16] H. Adam Holt: Oh.

[00:05:17] Derek Notman: Um, well, I, I would say, like...

And this, this is an, a, an old statement I heard from s- I can't remember where I heard it, but clients don't care how much you know. They just don't care until they know how much you c- you care about them, right? So, like, stop pontificating, stop showing off your credentials, stop, you know, all of those things.

Like, they don't care until they know how much you care about them. And how do you... How do they know that you care? I don't know. You listen. You listen. You just shut up. All right? Just shut up. And, and listen. Just please listen and ask probing questions. Don't ask yes or no questions. Don't ask, uh, "How much is in your 401?"

You can get to that later, but listen. Just listen. Ask open-ended questions. Let them talk.

[00:06:10] H. Adam Holt: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Come on, Derek. I mean, how am I supposed to tell them how smart I am and how much- ... and how, how much I'm worth, why they should pay me 1%, a- unless I tell them? And they're not gonna know to ask these questions.

I gotta show them how smart I am.

[00:06:25] Derek Notman: They don't care, Adam. They don't? They don't care. No, not right now. Not at the beginning. They will. Once they know you care, they're gonna be like, "Damn it, Adam, show me everything you know." I trust you now, and you better be able to help me, 'cause I, I thought you could, but let's go.

Yeah. But, you know, so then- I call

[00:06:45] H. Adam Holt: this, uh, yeah, I call this same team, man. Remember when we were playing, like, uh, playing ball or something when we was kids, and, you know, you're both going for the ball, and then you're, like struggling. You're fighting somebody who's on your team, but like, "Wait, wait, we're the same team."

Yeah, right. That requires you actually have to look up, recognize, "Oh, yeah, that's right, we're working on the same team. Let me back off, and you take the ball and then pass it to me," right? So wh- whatever game, sport you're talking about, the same team means we're on the same side. It's hard for clients to know that you guys have the same agenda.

If you don't know what my goals are, you're not gonna help me- Right ... get there unless we know we have an agreement, this is the goal. So you gotta talk about goals first. What's the passions? What are the deal breakers? Where, what are you really uncomfortable with? What do you wanna see more out of your advisor?

And that really takes an, a, of course, a caring, empathetic approach, right? We just talked to George Kinder about this. Do you remember what he said?

[00:07:36] Derek Notman: Oh, it was all about listening. That's it. It was all about listening. That was, that was his biggest thing. I... If you haven't listened to that episode, please do, 'cause he...

Brilliant man with some really great insights. Uh, but that's it. Yeah. That's true. That's all it. You know what, you know what? A, a simple tactic I learned when I used to be a brick-and-mortar advisor- Right ... and if you still are just a brick-and-mortar advisor, please rethink that. We have a podcast episode all about it.

Mm. Um, but what I used to do in my office is I would not have your traditional desk where it was sitting across from each other, 'cause that's more almost adversarial. It's not same team. I had a, uh, a round table that I would have all my meetings at, where now- Mm ... we're on the same side of the table. It's simple- Wait a minute, wait a

[00:08:16] H. Adam Holt: minute.

Wait a minute. It's round. How could you be on the same side? I thought you'd be on the-

[00:08:19] Derek Notman: I sat right next to him, man. I sat right next to him.

[00:08:22] H. Adam Holt: I had to do geometry with my 10-year-old. Now, I know there's no sides on a circle, so I'm

[00:08:28] Derek Notman: just- That's

[00:08:28] H. Adam Holt: it ... just calling your BS here. It's sa-

[00:08:30] Derek Notman: It's... Yeah, I, I have a little bit of that.

[00:08:33] H. Adam Holt: I did the same thing, though. I mean, I didn't have a round table. I actually had a, a trapezoid. No, I had a- Sorry, it's still top of mind. I had a rhombus table. And- Did you have a

[00:08:42] Derek Notman: cylinder?

[00:08:43] H. Adam Holt: It's a... Yeah, right. I don't know where you sit around a cylinder. But okay.

[00:08:49] Derek Notman: You, you...

[00:08:51] H. Adam Holt: I had a... You can tell this is the end of the year podcast because we're both- Yeah, right

just, like, literally just exhausted.

[00:09:00] Derek Notman: Oh,

[00:09:00] H. Adam Holt: boy I, I actually had a, uh, non- the non-office office from, uh, from, uh, Strategic Coach concept, right? Which is literally just one big conference room, too. So I- Love it. Love it ... clients, they wanna know that you're on their team. What can we do to help, uh, you know, clients?

We... I don't think we have to lead with, "Look how smart I am. Look at this team. It's so big, and we've got all these expertise." Um, I think that if they're already there talking to you, they probably already know that. Um, but- Exactly ... it does mean we have to create more space for asking questions that they can just talk 80, 90% of the time, so we can listen and see if it's the right fit as well as understand what their real core values and needs are.

Um-

[00:09:36] Derek Notman: That's

[00:09:36] H. Adam Holt: it, man ... it's a reminder. I, I know- That's it ... most of you in advice are already doing this. Uh, but it's a reminder again just to take an extra pause and just listen.

[00:09:47] Derek Notman: And just listen.

[00:09:47] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, that's it. Make space. Make space for people to talk. I think that's- Make s- ... really important.

[00:09:50] Derek Notman: I love that. I love that.

All right,

[00:09:52] H. Adam Holt: what's the next- It doesn't work in a podcast, by the way. Making space like that doesn't really do anything. Well,

[00:09:56] Derek Notman: there's a... We've got a lot of space between us right now, Adam.

[00:09:58] H. Adam Holt: It's true, about 3,000 miles.

[00:10:01] Derek Notman: Yeah, I don't know if it's enough.

[00:10:04] H. Adam Holt: It's clearly not working, by the way.

[00:10:05] Derek Notman: It's not working.

[00:10:06] H. Adam Holt: Great. So what's... All right, great.

[00:10:09] Derek Notman: And what's the third one? I wanna know q- All right, give us- Yeah ... give us another one here.

[00:10:12] H. Adam Holt: Um- All right. So here's the thing. Jargon is for jerks. Jargon is for jerks. Where... What is that? Well-

[00:10:21] Derek Notman: What is that?

[00:10:23] H. Adam Holt: Well, I... We have seen, and maybe this kinda goes along with number 2, which is- We gotta remove intimidation from this process, right?

Uh-huh. We gotta make it more accessible, easier. Stop pretending that people understand what, you know, a jargon. Even 401K sometimes falls flat, 529, right? Yeah, right. Revocable trusts. Get your SLAT out, and then we'll do a CRT. We'll move the money over to a, uh, to the beneficiary designated trust, and then w- what?

I don't know your- It sounded

[00:10:52] Derek Notman: really important.

[00:10:52] H. Adam Holt: This is not about your ego, right? Right. It's about-

[00:10:55] Derek Notman: Check

[00:10:55] H. Adam Holt: that ego ... helping people. Yeah, and I think this is an educational point, right? I, I think our goal as advisors should always be to educate and not assume that people understand what we're talking about.

There's ways to do it, right?

[00:11:07] Derek Notman: Oh, there is. Well, as a subject matter expert, our job is to understand the complex and then simplify it for our clients to understand how it applies to their lives. So don't use those crazy terms that you just said. Like, you're giving me a headache already here, 'cause I don't know what those mean.

It's 'cause

[00:11:21] H. Adam Holt: you don't understand them either,

[00:11:22] Derek Notman: right? I don't understand them either.

[00:11:25] H. Adam Holt: I'll tell you what's, you know what has grown, though? My ego. I have right now, it's because I feel like I know so much.

[00:11:30] Derek Notman: I know. I'm gonna go to a different continent now 'cause I need more space.

[00:11:33] H. Adam Holt: You can Google it. Google beneficiary controlled trust.

Or is it, is it part of the metaverse? It is. It's, it's gonna be part of the metaverse. I think we're all gonna be dressing differently in the metaverse. Are we gonna have to wear suits in the metaverse, by the way, when we meet with clients? Mm.

[00:11:52] Derek Notman: The T-shirt suit. The T-shirt tuxedo.

[00:11:55] H. Adam Holt: I, I honestly think I'm gonna be dressing up as, like, a, an animal, like a cat or something.

[00:11:59] Derek Notman: Oh, yeah. We'll have to have our- Do you know that? What do you call those, um-

[00:12:02] H. Adam Holt: Avatars ...

[00:12:03] Derek Notman: avatars. Yeah, but we're all gonna be animals.

[00:12:06] H. Adam Holt: That's right. We're all gonna be animals.

[00:12:08] Derek Notman: Or insects. You could be an insect, I guess, too.

[00:12:11] H. Adam Holt: Listen, stop deprecating the industry. We're not a bunch of insects, okay? W- didn't you just read this survey from Edelman that basically, uh...

What did it say?

[00:12:19] Derek Notman: What was it? Uh, just over half of the people, of consumers actually trust us, which means almost half don't trust us. Isn't that what it was?

[00:12:27] H. Adam Holt: Got it. So half are perceived as, as dogs, and half are insects, basically. If you like dogs- People love dogs ... people love

[00:12:33] Derek Notman: dogs.

[00:12:34] H. Adam Holt: People love

[00:12:34] Derek Notman: dogs, so they hate insects.

[00:12:35] H. Adam Holt: And they don't like insects. There

[00:12:37] Derek Notman: you

[00:12:37] H. Adam Holt: go. Well, we don't wanna be an insect. So what's number, what's number four? So tell me what, what do you think is number four.

[00:12:43] Derek Notman: Yeah. I, and I was, I was g- I'm sure you were guilty of this, and I was. Lists are for salespeople Like your hit list, your top... Like we're doing a list now, so, or are we sales people with our top 10 list?

[00:12:56] H. Adam Holt: Yes. We're selling-

[00:12:57] Derek Notman: This is terrible ... we're selling our- But no, but it's like- We're selling our

[00:12:59] H. Adam Holt: intelligence.

[00:13:01] Derek Notman: That's it. Lists are, like sales lists is, it's sales. It's, this should be called relationship lists. Mm. Like, let's put a list together of people I'm gonna go build a relationship with, not that I'm gonna go like sell a product to.

And that just goes like to the whole leading with advice thing, right? Mm-hmm. Sales versus advice, and listening, and all of those things. And don't go buy a cold list. Like just don't do it. And I done it. I did it. And it, it doesn't feel very... Like, it took part of my soul.

[00:13:32] H. Adam Holt: It did. It really did. So would you, what, what, what'd you replace it with?

You remove it. We're saying don't, don't just rely on lists. What should you invest in?

[00:13:40] Derek Notman: It's the long game, man. Like, invest on your own personal, like, brand capital and, and building long-term relationships and showing people that you are there for the long game and that you care. You're not showing up for the pre-season and then ditching out.

You're playing every game of the season.

[00:13:57] H. Adam Holt: Yeah. You know what I used to do when I was, uh, younger in the business? So I was so desperate to, to try to be a subject matter expert early on. I, you know, I did my CFP like you really early. And I would go to these... Instead of cold calling, right? 'Cause our managers wanted us to cold call, you know- Mm-hmm

hit those 100 names and buy lists and do all that stuff and just try to, "I gotta close business to pay the bills," right?

[00:14:19] Derek Notman: Right.

[00:14:19] H. Adam Holt: Um, when we were more product-minded. I would actually... I couldn't afford lunch, so I would... These professionals, lawyers, real estate developers, people trying to get people to invest with them, accountants, that was their lead generation.

They would offer these free lunches. So I would find out about them and I'd go to the lunches. And I would basically just network while I was there, and I would just show up and talk to the guy next to me and be like, "Why are you here?" Like, "I don't know. I'm here to..." And I would try to make friends with people.

For the free

[00:14:44] Derek Notman: lunch. I want the free

[00:14:45] H. Adam Holt: lunch.

[00:14:46] Derek Notman: I'm here for the lunch. I'm cheap.

[00:14:46] H. Adam Holt: And the credits, the CE credits that are professional. And by the way, I need my free

[00:14:49] Derek Notman: CE.

[00:14:50] H. Adam Holt: Well, no, it wasn't even for our profession. It was for like law, lawyers. But I say that because I actually did make a bunch of relationships- Sure

because I kept showing up at these things.

[00:14:59] Derek Notman: Right.

[00:14:59] H. Adam Holt: And they're like, "Oh." When they thought of a financial professional, they're like, "Oh, that... What's that kid that's always in the back of our rooms? Refer him." So it was- He's

[00:15:04] Derek Notman: always eating the free lunch, like he's getting thirds every time- That's right ... he's here.

He keeps going back to the buffet.

[00:15:09] H. Adam Holt: I learned a lot. But we like him. I learned a lot about law and, and about real estate and tax. And so I used it as a... But my point is that it's, it was a long game investment. So- Totally. Long game ... I, I hope that we're using our time wisely as advisors. Let's, uh, let's go on.

[00:15:23] Derek Notman: What's the next one? Yeah, give me

[00:15:23] H. Adam Holt: a- I don't, I don't know. Well, this one, this is yours. I'm, I'm like, I'm afraid to say it, right? What is number five?

[00:15:29] Derek Notman: So this, this drives me nuts, 'cause it happens to me and it probably happens to most of our listeners. Do not be a pitch slapping pirate. Arr. Okay?

[00:15:42] H. Adam Holt: Don't do it.

Don't do that. Don't- Don't do the arr, either. That's scary.

[00:15:46] Derek Notman: In other words, like, man-

[00:15:47] H. Adam Holt: What is a pitch slapping

[00:15:49] Derek Notman: pirate? ... pitch slapping pirate, man. Like, don't do it, right? It's... Like, how many times have you had a DM from someone you've never talked to on LinkedIn? Wait,

[00:15:56] H. Adam Holt: wait, wait, jargon master, what's a DM?

[00:16:00] Derek Notman: Uh, direct message

[00:16:01] H. Adam Holt: Thank you.

You got caught, man.

[00:16:04] Derek Notman: I got caught. I'm so sorry I've intimidated our listeners-

[00:16:07] H. Adam Holt: You did ... with my DM

[00:16:08] Derek Notman: comments.

[00:16:08] H. Adam Holt: What's

[00:16:08] Derek Notman: he

[00:16:08] H. Adam Holt: talking about?

[00:16:10] Derek Notman: Who is

[00:16:10] H. Adam Holt: this guy?

[00:16:12] Derek Notman: In other words, like, don't dry shave people. You gotta lather them up before you shave them. Come on, man. Give them a pla- Give them a good experience. Wait,

[00:16:21] H. Adam Holt: I use an electric razor.

What are you talking about?

[00:16:24] Derek Notman: You gotta stop using the electric razor, man. It's all about the lather and a nice- ... straight blade.

[00:16:31] H. Adam Holt: Wow. That was... That's an old school thing. That's

[00:16:34] Derek Notman: what

[00:16:34] H. Adam Holt: I have, man. Most people don't know what a straight blade is.

[00:16:35] Derek Notman: That's what I, that's what I use. I still use that.

[00:16:37] H. Adam Holt: You do?

[00:16:38] Derek Notman: I sure do.

[00:16:39] H. Adam Holt: You literally have a straight razor?

[00:16:41] Derek Notman: I do.

[00:16:41] H. Adam Holt: Like, the long handle

[00:16:43] Derek Notman: kind that- Yeah. They're called cut throats.

[00:16:45] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, I know why, right? 'Cause I watch movies.

[00:16:48] Derek Notman: But dude, like, other than my, my stash, um, I can't grow any facial hairs. I got like one hair with it.

[00:16:54] H. Adam Holt: Oh, well that's

[00:16:55] Derek Notman: pretty... You look and sound cool from using a straight razor.

[00:16:59] H. Adam Holt: And do you lather your face for your one hair?

[00:17:01] Derek Notman: I do my entire face- ... 'cause it makes me feel more manly. My forehead, my eyebrows, the whole thing.

[00:17:10] H. Adam Holt: Wait, your

[00:17:10] Derek Notman: eyebrows. No. This

[00:17:13] H. Adam Holt: is what advisors shouldn't do. Advisors shouldn't do a podcast. Yeah, so don't

[00:17:15] Derek Notman: do that, all

[00:17:16] H. Adam Holt: right? Don't do a podcast either. Well, all right.

But- So, but what does that mean, though? So, so-

[00:17:22] Derek Notman: It, it doesn't feel good- Don't just try it ... man. Like, h- who likes being pitched cold?

[00:17:28] H. Adam Holt: Like what? Give me an example. What's an example of a cold pitch?

[00:17:31] Derek Notman: So LinkedIn, you see someone changes jobs or they just retired, right? We see those notices.

[00:17:37] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:17:37] Derek Notman: And you're, you're schlepping product and you're like, "Oh man, Joe just retired.

I'm gonna get that 401allen key." And you send Joe a message. You've never talked to Joe in your life. You've never DM'd, sorry, direct messaged Joe in your life. You've never engaged with any of their content in your life, but now you're sending them a DM, "Hey Joe, we have some of the same connections," right?

"Love the work you're doing. Noticed you just retired. Would you like to roll your 401over to me?" Like, uh, that's a- I

[00:18:08] H. Adam Holt: bet it works. I bet it works sometimes. Yeah.

[00:18:12] Derek Notman: But boy, does it

[00:18:12] H. Adam Holt: build negative reputation ... a blind

[00:18:13] Derek Notman: squirrel. Yeah. A blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. Right? Okay.

[00:18:17] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:18:18] Derek Notman: It, so just, it doesn't feel good.

People are buyers. People want our help. Yeah. But they wanna do it with a trusted source, someone that they know, there's a relationship, all of that stuff. So just, please just, you know, let, let, get some lather. Go buy some lather.

[00:18:34] H. Adam Holt: I hear you. I hear you. Although I, you know, it's funny 'cause I, I know that this technique works for some people because I get 20 of these a day.

Yeah. So I guess it's working, as you said. It... Yeah. But, but I have to admit, I, it's a real negative for me to receive these because it's, you know, the, there's these canned ones, which is, "I'm looking to expand my network. Would you please LinkedIn with me?" I'm like, "You what? So you can solicit to me?" I mean, that, it's a known solicitation technique.

Exactly. Like, I don't have anything in common with you. W- every one of those, those LinkedIn messages requesting connection should be personal. Tell me why you wanna connect specifically, what's in it for me. Don't tell me what's in it for you. Like, this is, it's, it's, it's becoming table stakes. But why it matters, Derek, I think is 'cause when advisors start building their reputation, it starts happening.

[00:19:21] Derek Notman: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:22] H. Adam Holt: You know, eventually you, you kind of, I think you're basically just knocking out your potential marketplace by, by being, I don't know-

[00:19:29] Derek Notman: You're burning bridges ... annoying, lame. You're burning bridges, right? Yeah. That reputation will precede you at some point.

[00:19:34] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:19:35] Derek Notman: For sure. You know? I've seen others call people out and, like, even share the DMs as a post.

[00:19:40] H. Adam Holt: Oh,

[00:19:40] Derek Notman: no

[00:19:40] H. Adam Holt: way. Right?

[00:19:41] Derek Notman: Yeah, man. Like, you don't wanna be that person. That- It's in writing. Yeah ... yeah, it's in writing now. Like, this, just be careful.

[00:19:47] H. Adam Holt: Got it. All right. All right. So you ready for number six?

[00:19:49] Derek Notman: Yeah, let's hear it.

[00:19:50] H. Adam Holt: All right. Don't say, advisors, don't say it's good enough. What

[00:19:55] Derek Notman: do you mean? What do you mean?

[00:19:57] H. Adam Holt: Well, look, I see lots of advisors, we talk to so many of them, and they have a website they put up in 2015 and they're like, "It's good enough. It does the trick." And one of the things that we have seen again and again is that your digital presence has to be on point today because so many people we've talked about on prior podcasts are actually checking you out even though you don't know about it, right?

They're going and inspecting your work. It's like literally saying, "Uh, teacher, I'm gonna submit this C level work." And she's gonna repost it everywhere for everyone to see forever. In other words, the digital, the digital presence never goes away, so everything we've done and created-

[00:20:36] Derek Notman: It's there ...

[00:20:36] H. Adam Holt: has to be preeminent 'cause nothing's neutral to preeminent.

So you can imagine, if your website is 2015, guess what they think, like, your services are gonna be like.

[00:20:45] Derek Notman: 2015 or maybe older.

[00:20:46] H. Adam Holt: Barely. Right. Yeah, barely.

[00:20:48] Derek Notman: Maybe worse. Right.

[00:20:49] H. Adam Holt: Right? 'Cause clearly you don't care. And so someone who doesn't care about how they're perceived in terms of how their customers are gonna look at them is like...

It's like walking into somebody's, you know, messy, cluttered, hoarder room. Like, I don't know if I want you- Oh, yeah ... to manage my money.

[00:21:04] Derek Notman: Or even, like, a new restaurant that's supposed to be good but you got maggots and cockroaches running around. Maggots, geez. Like

[00:21:10] H. Adam Holt: Just the wallpaper's ugly, what are the maggots?

What are you talking about? How about, how about a restaurant, a fish restaurant that has carpet? Like, I, I mean, I can't eat there. You know how many times fish has spilled on the floor? Oh, that's just bad, man. And that carpet just stinks. And I'm like, "Why wouldn't you replace the darn carpet?"

[00:21:27] Derek Notman: Not replace it, get rid of it.

Put in-

[00:21:28] H. Adam Holt: Sorry, they should replace it. Put in something- Yeah, they should ... where

[00:21:30] Derek Notman: maggots can grow.

[00:21:31] H. Adam Holt: Right Maggot unfriendly spot. Maggots, that's hilarious. What kind of restaurants do you have in California?

[00:21:39] Derek Notman: There- All right ... well, there's some questionable ones.

[00:21:42] H. Adam Holt: Cool. What's number seven?

[00:21:43] Derek Notman: All right, um-

[00:21:44] H. Adam Holt: Give, give us number seven, Derek.

[00:21:45] Derek Notman: All right. Don't be a one-trick pony, right? One product does not solve every client's financial problem. Right? Ha- have you heard of the Cadillac of CDs, Adam? Wait- Have you heard of the rich man's Roth?

[00:22:02] H. Adam Holt: Wait, what are those things? Right? Those sound awesome. I want that. Don't they

[00:22:05] Derek Notman: sound amazing? Like, I would want o- I want that

I would want one of those. W- and so don't be like... Oh, man, there was this guy. He s- he used to call himself the VUL king.

[00:22:15] H. Adam Holt: The VUL king. Yeah. Why? Because everybody got indoctrinated with the VUL?

[00:22:20] Derek Notman: Yeah, that's it. That was all that he... That's all he sold. Like, "I'm the VUL king. Everyone buys it from me."

[00:22:25] H. Adam Holt: Yeah. I-

[00:22:26] Derek Notman: Don't do that, 'cause not every product solves every problem.

That's like saying, like, my vitamins will cure every alien- ailment I've ever had or will have. It doesn't work that way.

[00:22:36] H. Adam Holt: Wait, you mean the vitamins that you told me to take are not gonna- ... not gonna...

[00:22:40] Derek Notman: Dude, I got a referral payment on selling you that.

[00:22:43] H. Adam Holt: That's right. Isn't that funny?

[00:22:45] Derek Notman: I got you my affiliate link.

[00:22:46] H. Adam Holt: It's amazing what compensation will do. I, I... You wa- oh, you wanna retire? Buy an annuity.

[00:22:51] Derek Notman: Buy

[00:22:52] H. Adam Holt: an annuity. You wanna save for college? Buy an annuity. You wanna have some liquidity reserve? Buy an annuity. What?

[00:22:59] Derek Notman: Over- overfund permanent

[00:23:00] H. Adam Holt: life insurance. Not... One product does not solve every problem. It doesn't. It, it...

Okay? Every product has its place. We've seen way too much of this. It does... It gives the industry of financial advisors a bad name, we know that, when somebody tries to push a product, a square peg into the round hole. Every- All the time ...

[00:23:18] Derek Notman: time. Every time. You know who it does solve a problem for every time?

[00:23:22] H. Adam Holt: Who?

[00:23:23] Derek Notman: The person selling it.

[00:23:24] H. Adam Holt: I, I see that.

[00:23:25] Derek Notman: It, it'll help you get your kids to college. It'll help you retire. It'll help you buy that, that next car. That's true.

[00:23:30] H. Adam Holt: Right.

[00:23:31] Derek Notman: That's

[00:23:31] H. Adam Holt: another- It's not financial planning for me. Selling product for you. But that's it. Buying product, excuse me.

[00:23:38] Derek Notman: Yeah. Right. This'll make me really happy.

[00:23:39] H. Adam Holt: Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Y- you wanted me to help you with your retirement planning. Oh, you didn't, you- I thought this was about me.

[00:23:45] Derek Notman: I wasn't listening to you, so I just thought this was okay.

[00:23:48] H. Adam Holt: That's right. That's right. I was, I was too busy telling you how smart I was- ... that I was helping my own retirement.

[00:23:53] Derek Notman: Didn't you hear all that jargon I used? I'm really

[00:23:55] H. Adam Holt: smart. I know, seriously. It's came up on this list, you know. I figured after I DM'd you that basically- ... my crappy website, I'd just sell you this product. You see what I mean? This is the garbage that gives our industry-

[00:24:08] Derek Notman: It totally does, man. And it's like- Yeah

one bad apple will rotten the whole basket.

[00:24:13] H. Adam Holt: So don't do that.

[00:24:14] Derek Notman: Don't do that. Stop doing that. All right. It's true. I need to know the... This next one, I, I am very keen on hearing. I think you even asked a, a guest to come in for a second on this one.

[00:24:25] H. Adam Holt: Oh, number

[00:24:27] Derek Notman: eight.

[00:24:27] H. Adam Holt: Yeah. Are you ready? Is everybody ready?

Number

[00:24:28] Derek Notman: eight, here we go. I wanna hear it.

[00:24:29] H. Adam Holt: You're welcome. Yeah, so we, we in- we invited the ultimate robo-advisor to come in and tell us this. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead Arnold. "Don't try to out-dick the robo." I don't even know if that sounded like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think that's,

[00:24:44] Derek Notman: I think that's really close.

I, I think he had- It's close ... a cold when we interviewed him,

[00:24:48] H. Adam Holt: right? I know. It's true. I should've just done the replay. Right. Well, this is... I- if anybody didn't hear what I actually said or, or what Arnold said, uh, we see so many advisors are trying to out-techify the robo-advisors. In other words, they just think they can add all this tech to their stack, right?

To their, to their practice, and deliver such a great technology experience and still charge a significant amount under the pretense of, "Look at all this experience I'm giving you." You will not beat the robo-advisor and of course direct to consumer ro- you know, technology. You have to be more human here.

There's no reason to try to fight with the Terminator. We should be basically putting the Terminator on our team, and that's really the whole point. You will not compete directly with the low margin, low cost, way better tech than you could ever execute, that is the next generation of robo-advice. We should find ways to integrate that into our practice.

[00:25:42] Derek Notman: I love it. So you're saying bring the Terminator on the team, and think about- Yeah ... the Terminator movies.

[00:25:47] H. Adam Holt: Totally.

[00:25:47] Derek Notman: The only Terminator that made it through all of 'em was Arnold. That's right. 'Cause he was the most human of all of them. All the other, like, ones where they were trying to out-tech and do all that stuff, none of those Terminators made it, man.

[00:25:58] H. Adam Holt: I never realized that. That's true. I just watched- Think about it ... the fourth one. I think it was the fourth one. I don't know. I ran out of stuff to watch on Netflix, so I watched Terminator 4.

And yeah, you're right. Arnold Schwarzenegger's in it. It's

[00:26:09] Derek Notman: so true, though. He's always there, man. He's the human guy. He's the one that ends up being, like, like, a pseudo dad and all that stuff- Yeah ... 'cause he's the human one. So, so don't... Yeah. Bring, bring Schwarzenegger on your team, folks. He, he wants to help you.

Just don't arm wrestle

[00:26:23] H. Adam Holt: him. That's true. Right. So don't out-try to... Uh, don't try to out, you know, argue that you're gonna deliver a better experience in financial advice 'cause you got so much tech. People want more human. They want less tech, believe it or not.

[00:26:33] Derek Notman: There you go.

[00:26:34] H. Adam Holt: All right. What do you got for number nine?

[00:26:36] Derek Notman: Well, on that, on that whole thing of tech, stop blaming tech for your problems. Like, you know, like, "Hey, honey, you're, you're not doing it right."

[00:26:44] H. Adam Holt: Is that what... Well, wait a minute. Whose podcast is this for? What, what do you mean?

[00:26:50] Derek Notman: It's your mom and my wife, man. That's the only people that... Maybe you can get your aunt to listen to this.

I don't know. That's

[00:26:55] H. Adam Holt: true. Maybe. My, my aunt. I got a couple brothers, too.

[00:26:58] Derek Notman: There you go, man. We could get this thing up to, like, five people.

[00:27:01] H. Adam Holt: Everybody's rolling their eyes at this point. They're like- ... "What are you talking about?" Tech is not your problem. Focus is your problem.

[00:27:08] Derek Notman: Well, focus. We- You need, if you're gonna get tech, and you, we're s- we're not saying don't get tech.

Like, you need to have the human element, but get tech. But then you actually gotta, like, train yourself on it and your staff, and then you gotta implement the stuff, right? You gotta, like, know how to use it. They want you to know how to use it, right? You know? Mm-hmm. Um, so, so be that. So don't blame... You buy a new tech and like, "Oh, I didn't get any leads," or, "I didn't close any business."

That's not the tech's fault. It's your fault.

[00:27:39] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:27:40] Derek Notman: Right?

[00:27:40] H. Adam Holt: I know a lot of people that are spending a significant amount of budget on technology. They bought the CRM, they bought the planning tool, they bought the portfolio analytics, they bought the specialized planning tool, they got the Social Security analyzer, they got the estate planning tool- Oh, there's so much

they got the, the vault, they got the aggregation. They got that... None, none of it works. But you know why? Because you spent no money on training. We, we hear some phrases or some kind of, uh, guidance, excuse me, for how much you should spend on tech and how much you should plan- you should spend on training.

You should spend at least twice what you spend on tech in training for your people and you.

[00:28:14] Derek Notman: Right? Totally.

[00:28:14] H. Adam Holt: Totally. Go learn how to use it. Otherwise, you're not getting the ROI. You're basically just burying money, like, uh, buying the Peloton and hanging clothes on it. Like, that's- And that's too common, right?

That's right. Well,

[00:28:24] Derek Notman: hap- we've been doing it. Well, I mean, I'll, I, I'm not a Peloton. I was the NordicTrack guy. Oh. Remember NordicTrack?

[00:28:29] H. Adam Holt: That's perfect for clothes hanging. Perfect. It

[00:28:31] Derek Notman: totally is, right?

[00:28:32] H. Adam Holt: You got the high hanger and the low hanger.

[00:28:34] Derek Notman: That's all it did. Oh, man. Gets

[00:28:36] H. Adam Holt: in

[00:28:36] Derek Notman: the basement. Oh, my ex-stepbrother used to work at NordicTrack.

[00:28:41] H. Adam Holt: Your

[00:28:41] Derek Notman: ex-stepbrother? You hear that? Ex-stepbrother. Go- Yeah ... go figure that one out.

[00:28:44] H. Adam Holt: I'm trying not to, without insulting you. I don't know what- I know ... what to say. All right. Cool.

[00:28:51] Derek Notman: All right. So- Last one.

[00:28:52] H. Adam Holt: What do you, what do you

[00:28:52] Derek Notman: got

[00:28:52] H. Adam Holt: for us? Don't invest in the tech, invest in the training.

[00:28:54] Derek Notman: There you go.

[00:28:55] H. Adam Holt: Now, the last one is...

You ready for the what not to do, advisors? Don't do- $25 an hour work or less. We all know this one.

[00:29:05] Derek Notman: What do you mean? What do, what do you mean? Well, I- Well, I think, I think we know it, but you got... I need you to bludgeon it in now, please.

[00:29:11] H. Adam Holt: Bludgeon it.

[00:29:12] Derek Notman: Yeah.

[00:29:13] H. Adam Holt: So my, one of my early mentors used to say, "There's no reason you should be mowing the lawn.

You should not be cleaning your house. You should not be doing your paperwork. You should not be doing photocopies," back when we had photocopies. "You should not be making phone calls, answering the phone calls, scheduling your meetings, anything," unless you love any of those things, by the way. He said that, "Unless you really love mowing the lawn and getting on your tractor or whatever you do- Yeah

then okay. Unless, you should not be doing that work because you should be doing $100 an hour work. And it's, it's a rule of any business, right? You should delegate that which you don't love or is under your pay grade so that you can go out and generate more revenue. It's just obvious business.

[00:29:53] Derek Notman: It's obvious- But we still see a lot

but it's not obvious. That's the thing. It doesn't like- It's

[00:29:55] H. Adam Holt: not?

[00:29:56] Derek Notman: Well, no. Like, it, it... That's what doesn't like... Like, even if, think about it. W- let's say you make 100 bucks an hour being an advisor. Why are you spending your time doing $25 an hour work? But I see it happen all the time. I was talking to two u- newer advisors just this week.

They're like, "Yeah, we're doing all this stuff." And they have assistants already, and they're not delegating the work. I'm like, "What are you doing?"

[00:30:17] H. Adam Holt: Yeah.

[00:30:18] Derek Notman: It's just, it's, you know-

[00:30:19] H. Adam Holt: I no do all your work for you.

[00:30:21] Derek Notman: That's

[00:30:21] H. Adam Holt: right.

[00:30:21] Derek Notman: No, Arnold.

[00:30:22] H. Adam Holt: No, we should... The terminator should do it, right? Technology should be doing a lot of the work that we've been doing.

Oh, for so

[00:30:26] Derek Notman: much of that can be, right? Right? Oh my gosh.

[00:30:28] H. Adam Holt: Should be automated or delegated. That's all technology is. It's just basically delegating it the cost of less than a human, right? That's the whole point. Robo-advisor should be on our team, right? 100%. Arnold, go pick up that car and move it into the backyard, right?

He can do it. So you know, I think that's really the key. We should hopefully take some things from here. All right. So should we, should we run through our list again just to, like, make sure that we're- Let's do

[00:30:49] Derek Notman: it real quick. Yeah.

[00:30:50] H. Adam Holt: All right. Go ahead. Let's do it

[00:30:51] Derek Notman: real quick. All right. I'll do the first five.

Go. Don't sleep with your clients. Don't sleep with them, please. Um, care about your, uh, care about your clients and show them. So, you know, they don't... Remember, they don't care how much you know until you know they know how much you care. All right? Uh, don't be a jargon jerk. Stay away from using jargon.

Check your ego at the door, please. Don't intimidate. You know, educate, listen. Uh, lists are for salespeople. I mean, I guess if you wanna be a salespeople, I mean, go be you. But, uh, if you're, if you're leading with advice, focus on relationships, being the subject matter expert, things of that nature. Curate the long game.

And my, one of my favorites is do not be a pitch slapping pirate. All right? Go buy some lather. Go lather people up, man. Come on.

[00:31:42] H. Adam Holt: Very strange one. I'll let you have that one. But okay. Don't disha- Don't... Yeah, right. I don't even know. I'll leave that as it is. All right, so let's, the last six here. Uh, last five, right?

Uh, nothing is good enough on your preeminence for marketing. You gotta, you gotta be intentional about this thing. So don't go, don't get away with your, uh, your old website. Go make it modern and make it attractive. One product is not gonna solve every problem, so please stop that, okay? Maybe get a second product-

uh, and accept the fact that two products maybe serve more problems than one. Uh, don't try to outdo Arnold, right? The, the robo here is your friend. Go be more human. Just in- institute- Yeah ... some of this fantastic tech and, of course, train on it. That means go figure out how to use it to get the ROI. And of course, at the end, make sure you're doing the intentional work.

Don't do the $25 an hour work. Uh, please figure out a way to delegate. Offs- offshore it, offload it, whatever you gotta do.

[00:32:38] Derek Notman: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:38] H. Adam Holt: Um, you will not grow unless you're able to delegate. Hopefully that, uh, hopefully that was useful to some of you. Um, and if not-

[00:32:46] Derek Notman: Let us know. I'm curious.

[00:32:47] H. Adam Holt: Yeah, right. You're able to pull off at least three or four of these things.

Um, I'm sure most of you already know this, but it's again a reminder for what we all need to do, uh, just a little bit better and, and of course make incremental approval in, improvement in our, our experiences. So that's all we have for today, Derek.

[00:33:03] Derek Notman: I thought it was a lot of fun. It's a little, you know, change.

We're wrapping up the year and, you know, just, you know, hope you all have, like, awesome holiday season and, and that you're, you're playing this episode. I think you should take the earbuds out and put your Bluetooth speakers on 'cause everyone in your household, while you're having your holiday meal, should listen to this episode.

[00:33:23] H. Adam Holt: Hopefully they're making fun of you or us. They're doing one or the other.

[00:33:25] Derek Notman: Yeah. Yeah, have a laugh at our expense. We're okay with it.

[00:33:28] H. Adam Holt: It's true. Make sure you do subscribe. We have an awesome l- lineup of people that are gonna be interviewed and some, um- Yeah ... fantastic na- names that you all know. We were actually surprised at how far we were able to get some of the, the, um, uh, guests on our podcast.

So we've got some great stuff lined up for 2022. Uh, from our family to yours, have a fantastic holiday and a safe, uh, New Year. Uh, stay healthy- Definitely ... into the next year.

[00:33:51] Derek Notman: Yeah. R- rock on everyone. Sending positive vibes your way.

[00:33:54] H. Adam Holt: Cheers. All right, Derek. All

[00:33:56] Derek Notman: the best, my man. Until the

[00:33:57] H. Adam Holt: next time.

[00:33:58] Derek Notman: Yeah, buddy.

See ya.

[00:33:59] H. Adam Holt: See ya.

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